Reality is good for your health 👇
Your body-mind is a SYSTEM that’s designed to constantly move towards wholeness and to keep you in the zone so you can do what you need to do with life.
The best thing about this system is that it works by itself – you don’t need to DO anything except to respect it and work with it so it can do what it needs to do.
If you get too lost in the modern world and all of the BS that comes with it then you just end up BLOCKING things and causing problems for yourself.
In this episode of Creative Status, I had the pleasure of interviewing Leke Asong, a practising NHS GP, Functional Medicine Doctor and Wellness Consultant. The interview focused on the health choices that people make, the limitations of the biomedical model, and how we can return to our natural state of vitality and freedom by being real.
Through his personal experience of suffering from poor gut and overall health, Leke came to the realisation that the conventional medical approach did not have all the answers, especially when it comes to chronic disease. This is when he discovered functional medicine, which seeks to find the root cause of disease and treats the whole person, not just the symptoms.
We discussed the limitations of the biomedical model, which focuses solely on diagnosing and treating disease, and does not address the underlying causes of illness. Leke emphasized the importance of taking a holistic approach to health, which includes addressing mental, emotional, and even ‘spiritual’ factors.
Leke also talked about the importance of being real and authentic, and how our societal norms and pressures can lead us to ignore our own needs and desires. He stressed the need to listen to our bodies, and to make choices that support our health and wellbeing.
Overall, this episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in taking a holistic approach to their health and wellbeing, and for those who are looking for alternative approaches to healing. Leke’s insights and expertise provide valuable guidance on how we can live more authentic, healthy, and fulfilling lives.
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Episode Links:
Gut Health Medic: https://www.guthealthmedic.co.uk/
Leke on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/guthealthmedic/
Connect with Leke on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leke-asong-0767b3103/
Creative Status Links:
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The Law of Attraction for Realness (mini course)
Show Transcript
Intro
Oli Anderson: Oh hi there, Oli Anderson here – you’re listening to Creative Status.
If this is the first time you’ve discovered this podcast, well welcome. Ultimately, what we talk about over here is how the creative process is about the journey towards wholeness.
That means that we’re growing more real, authentic and true to ourselves and in our relationship with reality by allowing the unconscious to become conscious and ultimately integrating all of the parts of ourselves we may have been hiding from, learning new things that are going to take us closer to the edge of what we currently know and to get new insights about how to be a real human being,basically.
Everybody else, if you’ve heard the podcast already and you’ve returned then thank you for coming back. Hope life is good today and that you’re ready for this interview.
Today I’m talking with Leke Asong. Leke is a GP, that’s a general practitioner here in the UK and ultimately he has a lot of really interesting and amazing things to say about health in general and the way that our attitude of being either real or unreal will affect the choices that we make and the lifestyle that we live and the health that we have or the natural state of health that we’re connected to based on all of those things.
There’s some really interesting stuff in here about the choices that we make as individuals but also there’s a kind of underlying theme about how the health services and health systems in general kind of set us up for picking up a bunch of misconceptions and false ideas about what health really is.
It’s really interesting if you’re somebody like me who has to spend loads of time in hospitals and go in to see doctors and all that kind of stuff because you have some kind of health condition but ultimately if you listen to this conversation it’s hopefully going to motivate you, it’s going to inspire you to make some better choices and you’re going to be able to return or get on the path to returning to if you’re not there, your state of natural vitality and well-being. So Leke, thank you so much for the insights that you’ve shared here.
Everybody else see you next Monday for another episode of Creative Stators. Hope this helps you and thanks so much. Here we go.
Interview:
Oli Anderson: Oh hi there, Leke. Thank you so much for joining me today on this episode of Creative Stators. We’ve had a brief conversation previously where I rambled at you and threw all kinds of wild theories in your direction.
Basically, I think what we’re going to be talking about today is foundational approaches to health and how we can be more creative to some extent but how we can ultimately take a real approach to the way that we live and relate to ourselves at the levels of our health. Before we get on to all that, have you got anything that you would like to say? Would you like to introduce yourself and tell us what you’re all about and what you do?
Leke Asong: Yes, thank you so much, Oli,, for having me on the podcast. My name is Leke, I’m a GP, functional medicine doctor and I’m a specialist. So I’m a sensual agent at GSGP and I also see patients privately through Gut Health Medic, my company, and I use a functional medicine approach meaning is a more holistic or alternative way of looking at health and really focus on chronic disease management, especially the gut and achieving optimal health.
Oli Anderson: One thing that I really liked about your work when I was looking into it is that a lot of what you seem to be doing is helping people to reconfigure their lifestyles so they can return to a more natural way of living or a natural way of relating to themselves. Is that a fair assessment before I start grilling you about that? Is it fair to say you’re just helping people get back to where they should already be?
Leke Asong: Yeah, I’ll say that’s a fair assessment. I think especially when we’re dealing with chronic disease, it’s all about achieving balance and you can’t do that without changing your lifestyle and your eating habits and things like that. So yeah, that’s the main aim.
Oli Anderson: One thing that I like to do when I’m thinking about all these different issues is to simplify it by looking at it in terms of either wholeness or fragmentation. So for me, I think we all have a natural drive towards more wholeness in ourselves and in the way that we relate to the world and at a slightly deeper level in the way that we relate to reality itself, whatever that means to people.
I think with the health thing, if we’re being fragmented, i.e. that we’ve got all kinds of complications and friction in ourselves, then it just ends up causing us to make unreal, unhealthy choices.
So maybe as a springboard to get this conversation to open up a little bit, can we say that a lot of the health issues people seem to have in your experience as a GP comes down to the the choices that they make, but on a slightly deeper level choices that are not necessarily aligned with their actual nature?
I know that’s a kind of big question, but what do you think?
Leke Asong: Yeah, that’s a good question. Yeah, a huge proportion of pathologies or diseases, I would say are lifestyle dependent. I’m talking of chronic disease again.
I mean acute disease are different. But for example, obesity or diabetes, high blood pressure, IBS, things like this, a lot of it depends on our kind of choices we make. And that upsets the body’s natural balance.
And once the body goes out of balance, you get a cascade of symptoms and then that just spirals out of control. And unfortunately, conventional medicine is mainly symptomatic treatment. So once you treat one symptom, the body just readjusts and throws off another symptom. So you end up just chasing symptoms are supposed to fixing the root cause of a problem.
Oli Anderson: Well, this is something that I find really interesting. So this kind of fascination, I guess, that we have with symptoms instead of the fundamental problem, whatever that might be, it kind of feeds into what we’ve been saying about the wholeness fragmentation thing. Because the way that I understand it is the fundamental problem always has something to do with the whole system, seeing the body as a whole system, the mind as a whole system, it’s all connected.
And if we’re just focusing on the symptoms, well, that is obviously a fragmentary approach to dealing with whatever issue that you have. But also, it’s ultimately about the illusion of control as well. Because I think symptoms that they’re easier to control in the short term, like you said, if you’re not dealing with the fundamental problem, you give a pill or whatever it is and one symptom disappears, but something else will pop up elsewhere, because you’re not digging deep enough into what’s actually going on.
So my question is another kind of deep curveball question, maybe, but why do you think our tendency as a culture or as a society or whatever is to deal with the symptoms more than the fundamental problem? Is it like an economic thing? Because it’s, you know, I don’t know, Big Pharma, or whatever it is, just want people popping pills? Or is it because of the way we like to control things and it gives us a sense of control, dealing with the symptoms in such an easy way. What’s going on there where we focus on just the superficial surface level instead of diving a bit deeper?
Leke Asong: Well, yeah, that’s a very good question. I think what the first reason is, I think a cultural one as independent of medicine is just we want quick results, we want things fast. So for example, lots of apps out there and there’s Amazon Prime and people want things now. So they don’t want to wait.
So yes, symptom, symptomatic control is a quick thing, you get quick results, like a quick fix. The second reason is probably in terms of medicine is just the training we get in medical school, we don’t really, as a medical model, we don’t really look at the interrelationship between the various body systems, we do it to a degree, but not beyond a certain point.
So and that leads to even fragmentation in terms of specialties, for example, the neurology, gastroenterology, gynecologist, some of those specialties make sense, but some don’t from the point of view of the body.
And the third reason is just how things are structured. For example, in GPs, consultations are 10 minutes in length. So that automatically forces you to be able to hold you on one thing and get a quick result. Because if, for example, you had a one hour consultation or half an hour, that kind of makes you dig deeper, a bit more.
If you’ve got 10 minutes and you’ve got 40 people to see a day, then you are going to go into the quickest thing in and out. It’s almost like conveyor belt medicine. So and then I think another point would be the education we get as doctors, there’s very little nutritional education in medical school.
So that could be a way to tackle the root cause, but a doctor could say eat healthy or exercise, but that’s not specific enough. You know, what does eat healthy mean? It could just mean anything. So yeah, so to get the quickest result is a quicker symptom, dramatic control, you know, in and out, next person. And like I say, we’ve got 30 or 40 people a day minimum to see as GP.
So you can’t go too deep with one patient. You never finish.
Oli: Wow. So really, it’s just a, it’s almost, it’s a structural problem, but it’s been normalized because we’re just so used to thinking that the symptoms are all we need to deal with. And it’s almost like most people aren’t even aware that the biomedical model and it’s kind of mechanistic approach to kind of fixing people like their, like their cars in a, in a mechanics garage or something, they, they don’t realize that there is a much deeper level. And I suppose could we say that another part of that is that when it comes to their health most people have either been conditioned or they just don’t want to believe that ultimately it’s their responsibility.
Mmaybe I’ve been a bit cynical but the way that the the medical system seems to work is that people have health issues things pop up and because they’re afraid or they just lack knowledge or whatever it is they want to put their trust in some external authority that can just say right take this pill do this intervention and then everything will be fine – wham bamb thank you ma’am – but actually the fundamental problem almost always goes back to their relationship with themselves at some level.
Leke: Absolutely that’s the point I totally forgot to mention because if for example a doctor tried to say look you need to change your lifestyle you need to do this you need to do that a huge proportion of patients are not really interested – I’ve tried that for years and, yeah, many times just failed the one a quick tablet can I just take this tablet and solve the problem so we just love to talk about waiting lists and not enough doctors I think we could double the amount of doctors and the problems will still remain I think like you said it’s really about educating people that it is your responsibility there is a quote that says 80 % of health happens outside the doctor’s office so yeah you need to take care of your body you need to eat well; you need to exercise you need healthy lifestyle; you need to supplement when needed.
Yeah, so once the public realize this then things get easier because you can’t entrust all your health with the doctor that’s just the fundamental fact of it all, unfortunately.
Oli: Do you think in a way this kind of tendency that people have to kind of want to kind of pass all of the responsibility onto the doctor is just a way of avoiding that fundamental issue which there ultimately is our responsibility it’s up to us… and in a strange kind of way the medical system is almost built around distracting people from that fundamental truth?
I don’t know if you have you heard of the drama triangle in transactional analysis?
Leke: No.
Oli: It’s just a it’s quite a simple simple model of just how people interact let’s just say for brevity and it’s just a triangle obviously so there’s three things on there but it has victims rescuers and persecutors and these are all kind of roles that you can fall into and so a lot of the time I think patients end up playing the victim so they’re like oh you know pour me blah blah blah they go see the doctor who’s supposed to rescue them and then out there in the world there’s the the illness which is the persecutor I guess in in this particular drama triangle.
But if the system is built around those kind of interactions then it’s always going to be avoiding the truth to some extent and it seems like, to me at least, that is how the system the medical system for physical health issues but also the mental health system as well seems to be structured… and, in a way, I don’t know if it’s because of funding and all this kind of stuff but to me I think it’s causing problems that people aren’t even necessarily aware of because of the things you just said.
Leke: Very good point so I went to a conference I think about three years ago and there was Dr. Unwin’s the GP as well and he talked a lot about diabetes and reversing diabetes and he mentioned a story how he was told in medical school that diabetes is a progressive and irreversible condition and that tends to be the kind of diagnosis with many chronic diseases medical books they kind of say it’s progressive and irreversible so it’s going to get worse so it’s almost like a negative view of it because if you tell someone’s progressive and irreversible then the control is almost out of their hand because I think that’s the condition I’ve got is progressive and reversible there’s nothing I can’t do about it.
But actually you can do things about it so if doctors think something is progressive and irreversible then they’re transmitting that kind of knowledge to the patient so the patient automatically from day one feels helpless says look I’ve got to look at diabetes it’s going to get worse you know I’m just going to take tablets forever.
But if you tell the patient actually you’ve got diabetes a lot of it depends on what you’re eating I mean it will take type two for example a lot depends on what you’re eating if you exercise you’re going to improve your insulin sensitivity if you eat the right foods you’ll lower your sugar and your diabetes could actually reverse then that’s a different discussion the patient will think, oh wow, I can do something about so it depends on how you tackle it how you look at it that changes everything.
Oli: Yeah well I’ve thought this myself like I’ve had some health issues in the past and I realized that the way the the conversations are usually framed is it’s always about what you can’t do so you can’t eat this anymore you can’t do this you can’t do that it’s all very negative in the way that you’ve just said.
Actually, if you can make the mental shift to focusing on what you still can do, then you’ll realize actually you know whether you’ve got a health issue or not you can still have a lot of control you can still flow with life and do all the things that you want to do or a lot more than they may initially make you believe and so that assumption that is built into the the way that conversations are had and the way that there’s the drama triangle I think a lot of the time it just causes people to identify in a way that is actually bad for their health.
And so I guess that’s a good segue into something I wanted to ask you about it, which is how do you think, and this is another curveball big question, so apologies, but how do you think the way that people identify in general can either have a positive or negative impact on their health and returning to the natural state of vitality and freedom. That’s how you described it on your website. We can all kind of have when we’re aligned with the real version of ourselves.
Identify in terms of in what way, for example. So if you take the drama triangle thing, for example, if you see yourself as being in a completely helpless situation and that you’re all right numbered and you know, and that you’re you just fixed maybe like you don’t have a growth mindset. So you’re just stuck in a certain state.
I think a lot of the time, people are filtering their relationship with their health through an unreal kind of identity. And actually, if you can kind of crack that open and start moving again, then in general, you return to that vitality and freedom. That’s how I’ve experienced it.
Leke: Yeah, I think this kind of in the realm of mindset and mental health. I think things sometimes happen for a reason. And I look at certain things that happen as a character building experience. I think sometimes we have such a negative view in society and we think, oh, you know, all this has happened to me and this has happened to me, you know, helpless. But actually, you could just change it around and say, this is happening to me because I’m moving forward. And that’s why I’m getting these obstacles and need to go around it and not be pulled down by it. And that can make a big impact because the more you start thinking, oh, I’m a victim, then you can end up with depression.
And just feel I’m helpless and things always happen to me all the time. And I was talking to a friend of mine actually a few days ago. And this wasn’t the realm of business, although in a way has some relevance what we’re talking about. And he was saying, in America, you could fail five or six times in business and someone was to hire you. But in England, if you failed once or twice, they’re looking you in a different way. So maybe America, the thing is a go go getting mentality. So if you fail seven times, he’s always going for it.
So he’s a good person to have. But maybe they might think, oh, in England, fail, so it’s not good at it. So is that kind of shift of mindset to say, look, you fail is not a problem, you need to fail to get better. And that’s just how life is.
Oli: Like, I think that’s the bigger issue of the identity thing. So like, reality just works in a certain way. So people are going to fail, for example, that’s one obvious thing that’s going to happen is just part of reality.
It’s not a reflection on people. It’s just something that can happen. Obstacles are going to arise trials, tribulations, blah, blah, blah, people are going to have health issues and all this kind of stuff. But no matter what happens, I think, like you said, you can use it to keep learning, keep growing, keep expanding. And actually, if you want to get a bit spiritual about it, or whatever, you can turn even the most challenging obstacles into something that is going to make you more connected to yourself and more connected to life. So I’m speaking from personal experience in my life, I had like a chronic disease or still good, I had kidney failure.
So I’m on dialysis. And yeah, at first, you know, I went through this whole process of being depressed and everything. But then in the, in the long run, it actually turned out to be a blessing. And I’d, you know, I really mean that in the strongest possible sense, because it just taught me so much about life.
It taught me so much about what I can do, and all these different amazing things that you can learn. And so, for me, I can totally understand what you’re saying when you say that. And I think the culture is kind of against that. So earlier on, when I was saying, you know, the medical system will just tell you, you can’t do this, you can’t do that. That was my experience. As soon as you get a health issue, they start wrapping you in eggshells.
And basically, that’s it, you’re supposed to roll over and just die and have this treatment until you do. But actually, if you focus on what you can do, you can still have an amazing life. And ultimately, the only thing that stopped me from understanding that initially was my identity, because I was holding on to an old version of myself, a conditioned version of myself.
And once I let that go, and was able to rebuild in alignment with what was actually true and start dealing with the fundamental problem, which was my relationship with myself, then, you know, I became happier than ever in my life is amazing, because I was able to move instead of just being caught up in my head. So anyway, that’s me rambling about that. But with the the reality thing, let’s say, let’s let’s open it up to that. And again, this is another curveball. So I’m just throwing all these curveballs at you.
Sorry. But do you think there are kind of Natural laws that we need to be aware of in order to make the most of our health? So one example of a natural law I found is just the law of cause and effect so you know our current state of health is ultimately an effect of the cause of our relationship with ourselves and the what the choices that we make and blah blah blah And if you understand that well, you can make better choices and be a better cause so you get better effects So if people understand that it can make a massive difference to their lives, but is there anything else? Like that that you think people need to be aware of for optimal health sort of thing yeah, just kind of I suppose almost universal kind of things that apply to everybody Everyone okay. I see yeah.
Leke: Yeah. Yeah, definitely are so I would say what three categories which would be nutrition Lifestyle and that would be movements and Supplementation so nutrition I would say everyone’s got to avoid process foods Because they’re full of refined carbohydrates full of Refined vegetable oils and high in sugar. So that’s bad for everyone Lifestyle change we really need to move more You know, it doesn’t have to be exercise could just be moving it could just dance it could be walks So being in connection with nature is so important. So walk in the park or in the nice field or in the forest even is very good for you and Supplementation I think we all have to because modern lifestyles cause nutritional depletion and some of the food needs and not really that good.
So we need to replenish some of the vitamins and minerals we’re missing out and Yeah, you need to be spiritually healthy. I think also having a good Healthy connections are so important during lockdown to people who are really depressed and felt really low So we need to talk to each other meet people go out for Walks in the drinks people is really important. So a sense of communication is so important and I think service to others It’s really really important. We help others. We really help ourselves
Oli: That’s amazing… With the the things you just said -do you think it’s fair to say that a lot of those things are ultimately just about returning to human nature?
So When people talk about, you know, human beings in society these days It’s almost always as though the cultural narrative anyway is that the the nurture comes before the nature but actually the nature – this is just my view – but like I think the nature has to come first and a lot of those things you said like avoiding processed foods and moving your body and Remembering that we’re tribal creatures and we’re mammals and so we need to touch other people and hang out with them and all that kind of stuff And there’s the service thing.
It was kind of linked as well do you think it is ultimately about that like the modern world has Has kind of taken us away from our nature and so that’s caused us to make unhealthy choices and Returning to health is ultimately about returning to nature to some extent?
Leke: Yeah, I think The very nature of our modern lifestyles. Yes has done that. We can use some technology to bridge the gap but For some reason they just makes things worse for example, right?
You could they are friends. I’ve just Talks them on WhatsApp for years and I’ve never really met them But meeting them changes everything for example if you meet them face to face and just have a laugh It’s completely different to just messaging them all the time so yeah in a way technology is caused us to be more distracted as well.
So we’re not living in the moment If you go to a concert for example, you know people who’ve got the smartphone out and they’re just filming it But actually if you just put the smartphone away and enjoy the music enjoy the guitars and the drums It’s a different experience than trying to get the best shot Yeah, so sometimes causes distractions and yeah, I think We’re designed to walk around, you know, e’re designed to sit for long for hours and offices and stuff like that. So yeah, by the very nature of society now we’re kind of moving away from how we’re designed to be .
Oli 100 % – do you think? What you just said about distraction is kind of a good way to understand all of this so in a way the modern world is just in general one big distraction like it’s just the bunch of different Fragments in terms of what we’re saying about wholeness and fragmentation there’s just all these fragments pulling us away from just being present in ourselves and in life so, you know people living said working in sedentary jobs basically sat down all day in front of a computer distracting themselves with spreadsheets they go home.
They sit down distract themselves with Netflix when they communicate with people it’s not face-to-face like you said It’s another kind of digital distraction like all of that stuff ultimately It can be used for good like obviously people need jobs so they can pay the bills and all these kind of things but the way that we go in about things is very unreal, I think and I think also is it’s affecting people’s health, which is probably why chronic disease is going up more than ever and All this kind of stuff depression anxiety Even though, you know the technology is better than ever and we got more medication and all that kind of thing.
Leke: Yeah, I think two months ago, I’ve had two consultations like this where I phoned a gentleman and he says, it’s all right. My problem is sorted. I just realized I was on my smartphone all the time.
It’s a true story. And yeah, no worries about it. All sorted. So you have had two of such consultation. We’re on our phones all the time and we’re distracted and yeah, even some of the ADHD and stuff where the parents bringing the I but it’s got a TV in this room is on the smartphone half the time up the Nintendo thing going on. So yeah, all the time on the screen.
So it’s gonna end up with a problem.
Oli: Yeah, like I’ve spoken to so many people recently that I’ve just self diagnosed themselves with ADHD. Like yeah, like, why do you think that is like everybody not everybody but so many people are just saying right I’ve got ADHD I don’t know if it’s a fashionable thing, or it’s just another way of avoiding responsibility and the way we’re talking about like what do you think’s going on there?
Leke: Yeah, good question. So this every day I get about two or three.
Oli: Wow.
Leke: Six months really. Yeah, it’s like a normal thing now. I think I’ve got a thing about ADHD. The first reason is communication. I mean, if someone goes and says, “Oh, I think I’ve got ADH”D and the doc says, I think you have it.
They might go to the par and talk to their friends friends. Oh, yeah, do you know I think I have it. So people talk amongst each other, then the thing or I think I’m right. So if you go to Google and put all the information in with any disease, anything you look at always seems like something you have.
These algorithms are like, yeah, I think I’ve got a poor blood of disease or you haven’t. So yeah, it’s almost like a bias because you think you have it. So you’re looking for a reason to have it.
So you’re going to end up thinking you have it. The second reason is I think, yeah, people are so distracted and they’re just not disciplined enough. So they’re looking for a reason to explain why they’re not achieving or why they’re not concentrating, why they’re behaving the way they are. So it’s easier for them to say, look, I think it’s because I’ve got this pathology and that’s why I’m reacting with Anna.
Yeah. And the third reason, this is really a weird one, but some it could be like a benefits thing because they get some people get like pips, payments and all this stuff. So yeah, I’ve heard kind of parents looking for diagnosis for the children because, you know, sadly, they’re going to claim and they’re going to get money from the get the diagnosis. Yeah. Monetary purpose, which is, you know, not a good thing at all.
Oli: But wow, like actually, that’s amazing in a way. Like that’s kind of linked to a question I was about to ask you. So with some labels, it’s almost as though we value having a label more than actually been healthy. If you know what I mean?
And so even though you would think that, you know, one of the best feelings in life is been in a natural state of health and having energy and vitality and been free to do what you want.
For some reason, and, you know, we’ve alluded to some of them already, people actually go out there trying to find labels that they can attach to that will actually give them a reason to keep identifying in a way that they’re comfortable with or to justify certain shortcomings or whatever it is that they perceive themselves to have without actually, you know, doing the work, let’s say, of turning inside themselves and cultivating discipline or whatever qualities it is that they need to develop. Is that something that you’ve seen with other labels?
So not just ADHD, but are they, you know, I don’t know if you want to answer this question, but are they things like that seem to happen a lot?
Leke: Yeah, I think, generally speaking, people like labels. So yeah, they could say, I think I have depression or I think I’m depressed or because in a way explains some of the stuff and some people are depressed, don’t get me wrong. I mean, depression is a real diagnosis. But sometimes it could just be live hardship could just be, you know, broken up with your partner, you know, people come in, I’ve broken up my boyfriend or my girlfriend three days ago and think I’m depressed. Well, I try to talk to me, not because it’s just a natural reaction. You are going to feel sad. Yeah, so it’s not depression.
I think social media in a way also propagates it on TikTok and all these apps. Sometimes a certain diagnosis might be fashionable and people want to talk about, you know, my depression and kind of tell their story. And maybe they’re not depressed, but I think is probably the fashionable thing to do. There’s an element of that as well. But sometimes it could be people looking for an answer.
I’ll give you an example. If a patient’s got, let’s say brain fog and aches and pains and unexplained, it’s so-called medically unexplained symptoms and they have all the tests are normal, then the doctor might say you’re depressed because the doctor doesn’t really know the reason. Or the patient might be happy to say, I think I found a reason why I’m feeling this way. Because that way it’s good to have some answer. Because if you had all the tests in the world, seen all the consultants and all of them said, well, there’s nothing wrong with you, then that’s even more in a way frustrating.
Because to say, I’ve seen all the best people and how come this is not wrong with me? But if someone convinced me and said, I think you were depressed, depression can cause aches and pains, depression can cause mood swings or then, oh yeah, I finally found the reason. And that’s why in a way I got into functional medicine because I saw lots of patients like this. Just strange symptoms, they’ve seen all these consultants, all these people and sometimes they just told you you were depressed. But in some cases, very smart or alert patients to say, I don’t think I’m depressed.
I think I’ve got a good family, my work is fine, I’m just not depressed at all. But for years I saw these strange pathologies, I thought, what’s going on with them? And my GP train at the time says, well, they just medically unexplained and some of the consultants just said, see your GP.
So that’s how I ended up down this path. Due to personal reasons as well, but a lot of it was, I just thought there’s got to be a reason why these patients are feeling like someone to find the answer. So I stumbled at functional medicine, that’s how.
Oli: Like in what you’ve just said, there’s so many kind of interesting threads and they’re all kind of related to some of the things you said. Like one thing that’s really interesting there about the labels thing, it goes back to what we were saying about the kind of conversations people are having in the medical system. And so a lot of the time, the conversation is framed by people just not being able to deal with uncertainty.
And so again, that goes back to the laws of reality and how we can navigate just reality itself. And the default state of existing in the world is uncertainty, but the medical system and the conversations that take place there are kind of framed on certainty or the idea of certainty and the truth by authority almost of the doctors and the consultants and all this kind of stuff.
It’s almost like a lot of the time, the patients, when they’re in that kind of victim state, especially they’re looking up for someone to rescue them and they actually need the doctors or the medical team to be completely omniscient, to know everything, to be completely omnipotent and to be able to save them from anything, but that is not actually how life works. I always think if doctors really were omniscient, then nobody would have any health problems because obviously we’d be able to solve them.
And so because we don’t like uncertainty, this thing we’ve said about labels is actually just a way of, it’s almost like putting a bandaid on, it’s giving the illusion of certainty in an uncertain situation. And so once you’ve got that label, you don’t have to ask any more questions, you don’t have to worry as much, but the downside of that is that actually you might not be dealing, like we said, with the fundamental problem, which is probably something to do with either not accepting something that can’t be changed or not accepting that the solution will involve you, looking at yourself. And so all of these things we’re talking about are kind of interlinked and it goes down to the level of the mind-body connection, I suppose, or the emotional relationship that people have with themselves.
Leke: Yeah, very good point, actually, excellent point.
Labeling as well helps in terms of admin insurance, for example. So yeah, you need to know what’s wrong with this patient, can they fly, could they go abroad, could they do this, could they do that? So you need to have a clear black and white diagnosis.
So that’s part of the issue. But you mentioned another point about certainty. Yeah, I think people think doctors are kind of omnipotent, but actually medicines are signs and an art as well.
So I used to think years ago, oh, the problem is just the human body is complex, that’s why nothing’s wrong. But actually my car broke down a few years ago and some mechanic plugged it into the computer. And we got talking and he said, depending on the kind of computer, the faults could be different. So even though the car is like a mechanical thing, you don’t always get the right answer. Even with the computer.
And if you’re caught in the IT department, wherever you’ve worked, sometimes you have to turn it on, turn it off, do this, do that, they’re trying and trying and trying. Even with that, it’s trial and error and we’re not really sure. So the body is even more complex.
So there are gonna be mistakes and things would happen. And the body doesn’t start a machine. So the way your symptoms manifest themselves, in fact, this is where coming back to functional medicine. So a patient could have the label of depression, but the root cause of the depression are different. So for example, if you had a clubbed up liver, for example, and you can’t excrete all the toxins, that could then accumulate in your body and cause depression. What if you have a chronic parasite that causes inflammation in your body and causes brain inflammation, you’d also have depression. So two people have depression, but they have different root causes.
Oli: So that’s another thing. Yeah, and actually it goes back to this idea that the mind body system is all one system, but the medical model, basically, it doesn’t see it as one system. It sees everything as being separate silos, like you said.
So you’ll have one department for your kidney, you’ll have another department for cardiology, whatever it is. is, ETC, ETC, everything is fragmented and looked at in isolation. But actually, you need to look at the whole thing. And the whole thing, actually, is the link between the body and the mind, is the link between the person who has that body and the mind and their society and their, you know, the wider relationships that they have with the universe and all these things.
It’s a very intricate system that is ultimately connected to everything else, I think, because it’s about the wholeness thing. But if we can only look at it through this myopic, fragmented lens of, OK, I’m just going to focus on your kidney or I’m just going to focus on your liver or whatever, then you’re not going to get the best results, I think.
Leke: Yeah, it’s just how doctors are taught. So more and more discovering different ways of healing and that’s really improving now. But yeah, it’s just the way things are.
Oli: Yeah, and obviously that model does work to some extent. Like it keeps people alive and everything. But it’s just it can be harmful potentially to think that it is the best model ever and that we can’t change things and be more holistic.
So basically, we’ve talked a lot about the problems with the medical system and how doomed we all are. But what are some positive changes that people can make in relation to all this stuff?
So if somebody has a health issue or they’ve got medically unexplained symptoms or stuff like that, what are just general things that people can generally do to tweak their lifestyles and start moving towards this natural state that you’re talking about?
Leke: All right, yeah. So I kind of mentioned them before, which were your diet. So avoid protest foods, things like gluten, refined vegetable oils, pasteurized dairy and sugar, things like that.
Lifestyle change, so incorporate movement, walking, dancing, going to the gym, cycling and supplementation. For example, vitamin D, vitamin C, there’s so many supplements. That’s a whole lot of discussion, things like that. But also mastering the art of telling your story to a doctor in a GP for 10 minutes. So there’s an acronym, a mnemonic used by medical students for years, it’s called Socrates. So it’s a way of giving a history in a coherent manner regarding to pain.
So Socrates S stands for sight. So where is the pain? You know, tummy pain.
O stands for onset. When does the pain start? Is it when you’re asleep, when you’re standing, when you’re twisting? Character of the pain, that’s C. Is it sharp, dull? Is it kind of cramping in nature?
R stands for radiation. Does the pain go to your toes, to your left leg, to your head? A stands for associated symptoms. Do you feel nauseous when you get the pain? And T is timing, how long does the pain last?
Does it come in bouts, it’s up? And E is exacerbating symptoms. Does the pain get worse when you lie down or when you bend? And final S is severity on a scale of one to 10. We normally say 10 is childbirth if it’s a woman.
Oli: Well, that’s supposed to be the worst pain, isn’t it, on the planet?
Leke: Yeah, childbirth is supposed to be the worst pain. Or renal kidney stones, apparently, as well.
Oli: Yeah, I’ve heard that as well, actually. But anyway, so what we’re saying with this Socrates acronym is that ultimately, a thing we can learn to do to get around some of these issues we talked about is just learn to communicate more effectively, I guess, or in a more real way.
Leke: Yeah, in a very concise manner.
Oli: Wow. Sorry I got you to repeat yourself there . We’ve been talking quite a while. We’ve covered a lot, obviously. If you were gonna sum up this conversation and give some final words of wisdom to people, what would you say?
And also, when you’ve done that, can you let people know where they can find you online? And that kind of thing.
Leke: Yeah, thank you. So most health happens outside the doctor’s office. So do as much as you can. Your health is within your control. So eat well, exercise, and supplement when needed. And you can find me at guthealthmedic.co.uk, it’s website, or Instagram at guthealthmedic. Or I’m now on TikTok at guthealthmedic.
Oli: Brilliant. So I’ll share all those links in the show notes and all those kind of places. But Leke, thank you so much for coming on and sharing all this information with me and everyone that was listening. And I really appreciate it. It’s been awesome.
Leke: Thank you so much.
Just one last thing. I actually do online courses now. So they’re very short courses on how to boost your immune system, how to stop sugar cravings and how to manage stress to prevent it from kind of consuming your body.
They’re on the website.
Oli: So that’s what did you say? Sorry, guthealthdoctor.
Leke: Guthealthmedic.co .uk.
Oli: Sorry, sorry. So I will share that 6 million percent on the show notes. But yeah, thank you again so much. It’s been really good.
Leke: Thank you.
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