Rock, Roll & the REALNESS of Entertainment (Creative Status: Episode 72: James Sebastian)

by Oli Anderson, Transformational Coach for Realness

Creative Status is a podcast about using creativity as a vehicle for improving your life by deconstructing ego, integrating the shadow self, and designing and manifesting a real life.

Every episode explores how the creative process can help you GROW REAL by moving towards wholeness in yourself by making the unconscious conscious.

Embark on a journey through the music scene with James Sebastian.

Join us for an exploration of the human condition, social conditioning, and the pursuit of wholeness through the lens of James’s creative journey.

Unveiling the Artist-Audience Relationship: Delve into philosophical discussions surrounding the artist-audience relationship as James shares his perspectives on the importance of emotional expression and audience engagement in the creative process.

Discover how authenticity and persistence in music can transcend the starving artist myth and lead to real relationships.

Embracing the Creative Process: Explore the nuances of the creative process as James reflects on his journey as a musician.

From navigating the challenges of social conditioning to embracing the wholeness of his artistic identity, James shares his experiences and insights with candor and authenticity.

Elevating Authentic Performance: Join me (Oli Anderson) and James Sebastian for an episode that celebrates the power of authentic performance and the transformative potential of music.

Tune in as we challenge conventional notions of talent and success, paving the way for a deeper understanding of the artist’s role in the creative landscape.

Creative Status: Where Music Meets Authenticity

This episode is your invitation to dive deep into the creative process, challenge societal norms, and embrace the wholeness of your own artistic or creative identity.

Tune in and discover the transformative power of authentic performance and audience engagement on the road to creative fulfillment.

Stay real out there,

Oli Anderson

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Show Transcript: Rock, Roll & the Realness of Entertainment

Creative status is a podcast about using the creative journey for growing real

Intro

Oli Anderson: Oh, hi there. Oli Anderson here. You’re listening to Creative Status. This is a podcast about using the creative journey as a vehicle for growing more real, ultimate. What we talk about on the podcast is the human condition and how we’re all on a journey from being fragmented and divided within ourselves because of social conditioning and emotional stuff, to a place of wholeness, which means connection to ourselves, connection to others, and connection to life itself.

Today’s episode is an interview with a musician, James Sebastian, basically a rock star in the making. We talk about music in general, the music scene, how we can build community around the art that we do, build, the relationship between artists and the people that consume it, and all kinds of amazing, wonderful, philosophical things that emerge from exploring those ideas.

So, James, thank you so much for your time. Everybody else, hope you get some value out of this episode. If you do, please leave a review or share it with somebody, or just open your window and scream creative Status, out onto the rooftops or something like that. Either way, here’s the interview. Thanks a bunch. Boom.

Interview

Oli: Oh, hi there, James. Thank you so much for joining me on today’s episode of creative Status. You’re a very musical.

James Sebastian: Hello!

Oli: Hello. You’re a very musical individual, and we’re going to talk about some of the lessons that you’ve learned as an artist and how you kind of have a creative process that allows you to purge your emotions and all this kind of stuff.

Before we get into it, do you feel like introducing yourself, telling people what you’re all about and what you want to get out of this conversation.

James: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Oli.

My name’s James Sebastian. I’m a musician currently in London, sort of churning away, as a lot of musicians do, trying to make something of it – and I feel like I’ve learned a fair bit. I’m only 22, but I’ve been doing music for years and years now. And going through the industry, getting to London, you kind of learn a fair bit, and I think it would be very cool to sort of discuss that today.

Oli: I agree with you. What would you say, just to get this, rolling, are, some of the main lessons that you have learned, like, in this short journey that you’ve been on, maybe a long journey.

Sorry, I totally got distracted because something popped up on my computer… Let me just keep it super simple. What are some of the main lessons that you have learned, you would say, that have kind of shaped the man you are becoming, if that’s not too dramatic a way of phrasing the question?

James: No, I love the drama. Let’s soak in the drama.

Oli: Yeah.

James: So what are some of the lessons, main lessons? I think the biggest one so far is just persistence is the big thing. I think so many people with immense talent don’t think they can do it, and they give up early. They go for a year, and then they don’t see the progress that they want to, and then they just think, this will never work.

But if you look, at the track records of so many artists, so many successes in history, it’s always persistence and just years and years of slogging away. Obviously, in the age of TikTok and Instagram, you can technically make it overnight. They always say no one ever makes it overnight, but the best way to success is just to keep on going.

Oli: What does keep you going, though? There’s the myth of the starving artist. So sometimes we think, okay, because I’m not as successful as one of you right now, but I am a starving artist and I’m struggling and I’m going through the motions and everything. It is going to work out one day. How do you keep pushing through that? You must be getting some evidence from life that you are on the right track. Or is it really just…

James: Absolutely, yeah.

Oli: Like, what is it that keeps you going?

James: I think it’s a mixture of things. Obviously, mainly musicians get into it for the joy of making music and performing music. So even if you didn’t see any success, just writing a song can be so fulfilling, and playing a gig can be so fulfilling, and it doesn’t have to be world changing.

But I, think often just standing and looking back to where you’ve come from is a big thing for continuing onwards, because so much of the time, we get kind of lost in the moment and what we’re working on in the moment, and you sort of forget the progress you’ve made over the last five years.

You forget all of that, because in the moment, something’s not working. And the thing to always remember is you’ve come so far in five years that the next five years, if you keep going the way you have done for the previous few, then you’re going to be twice as far as you are now.

Oli: Yeah, I think that’s really important when we’re in the thick of it, whether it’s just the thick of life itself or the thick of the creative process, we can’t see the forest where the trees come in.

James: This is so true.

Oli: Yeah. Every so often we do need to stop and just reflect and see how we have grown, how we have changed. Why do you think so many people do give up? Is it just a practical thing, like they’re not making enough money or something like that, or they’re not getting the attention that they thought they were going to receive? What’s the main barrier?

James: Like with everything, it’s a mix of things. But I think it is the fact that the speed at which, success can be seen. Like, when we’re successful and we look back at it, it seems like it was so quick. But the process and the journey can often feel very slow when you’re on it.

And I think especially in this day, where attention spans are incredibly low and everyone wants sort of immediate sort of fulfilment of things, and everyone often has access to immediate fulfilment of things, then the fact that something may take three years, four years, five years to even see a sign of progression can be really disheartening, and people will think, well, why waste my time on something like that?

Oli: There’s a kind of, misconception that people have, I think, and you’ve kind of alluded to it, where people, they perceive life as just the events. So, like, one day they’re going to have the event of an album coming out or the event of going viral or the event of something, but they never really look at the underlying process.

And I think if you’re not engaged in that process, then obviously you’re not going to be able to be persistent, because the only thing you can persist in is all of those little actions, all those little habits that are going to carry you from where you currently are to where you want to be?

And do you find that part of you getting the results that you want with the music stuff that you’re doing is actually just dealing with that, like the cause and effect almost, rather than, yeah, you know, a lot, a lot of musicians, a lot of artists, when they set an outer lease, they’re very romantic about it, and they focus on all of the performance of it and the expression of it and all these things that are important. But actually, that’s kind of just the tip of the iceberg, and it’s all this underlying work, actually, that is going to make the biggest difference. Do you know?

James: Yeah, absolutely.

People often romanticise music careers, but there’s also hard work involved

I think you brought something up really fantastic there, which was like the romanticisation of a music career or any sort of creative thing. People think, I’m going to play my first gig, and then on that first gig there’ll be a record label executive, and then they’ll sign me, and then two weeks later, I’m hitting number one. And the thing is, it can be a very romantic in terms of both ways, I suppose, but it can be very sort of, wow, I’m, up on stage. I’m playing to all these people. It’s amazing.

But I think you’re right. The thing that people often forget is that there’s such a slog also involved. It’s not just being up on stage, covered in glitter, dancing around. It’s also spending hours each day emailing venues that maybe won’t reply, emailing things, editing things, writing the songs, practicing, and all of that can often go sort of hidden from the public.

All the public will see is someone playing a show or someone releasing a song, and they’ll think, “God, that’s a pretty, cushy life. That seems quite fun” – and it is fun, and it’s very fulfilling, but it is also hard work. And that’s what people, I think, often get turned off by how much of a commitment it is. Like, you really need to want it.

Oli: Yeah. Let’s pick this romanticism apart a little bit. Because I think initially, a lot of people, when they’re attracted to artistic or creative projects, it is because of that romance. They think finally they’re going to get an opportunity to be seen by the world, or to express something in the world, or to stand up and be real in the world, whatever it is.

And because the only way you can actually get results in anything, whether it’s art or creativity or business or whatever, the only way you can get results is by working with reality itself, which is what we’re basically talking about, like cause and effect, and putting the work in and exertion of effort and all that kind of stuff. Then a lot of people, they end up finding that the project is eventually going to ask them to question themselves, which the original romance was an attempt to escape from. Do you know what I mean?

We romanticize things because it’s a way of kind of compensating for, our feelings of shame or whatever it is that’s going on inside us, or some inner emotional thing, ultimately. And, the work itself is something that can help us to process that stuff. But it seems like a lot of people get turned off by that because of the way it asks them to confront themselves. I don’t know if I’ve been too, harsh or critical, but have you seen that or have you experienced?

James: Yeah, no, I would absolutely agree. I think the best artists are very in touch with their emotions, very honest with themselves. They know how they feel, and they know that to create some of the best work is to channel that.

Obviously, that’s not always the case, because there are some fantastic artists who are very good at creating stories, and that’s a separate talent altogether. But for artists, for any artist, they’ve got to be in touch with their emotions.

They got to understand, themselves. And often the art can come from going through that journey of understanding. They don’t need to come fully formed. They can kind of, progress and develop and evolve. for example, David Bowie, a famous sort of chameleonic artist, and a lot of that was probably him working through whatever he was going through in his life at the time. And it’s reflecting that in the work he puts out.

But I think in terms of anything emotional, it can be scary. It can be scary to dive in and then to bear it to everyone, not just to deal with it yourself and go through it and look at it and see it for what it is, but to, then share it with a whole crowd of strangers and hope that they respect it, understand it, enjoy it. That can be a tough food.

A lot of performance can mask a lot of emotions.

Oli: I suppose what I was getting at as well, though, is do you think a lot of the romanticism that we’ve kind of talked about is an attempt not to confront our emotions, but to hide from them? It’s almost like it’s an escape to some degree. And in a way, that kind of romance, it attracts people to artistic, or creative projects, but actually it also kills and blocks the creative drives that are going to allow them to make something that’s actually real in the way that you’re talking about.

James: Yeah, that is very true. That is very true. And I think a lot of performance can sort of. This is a slight tangent, but it’s sort of in the same ballpark in that a lot of performance, ah. And ways that people perform can mask a lot of emotions and a lot of real personality, because on stage, an artist might become more of a tool for the song, more of a dispensing machine than the actual emotion.

So, an example that comes to mind is Freddie Mercury, who on stage, very brash, very confident, very sort of charged off stage, a very shy, introverted person. And one could argue that when he’s on stage, his whole reason to be on that stage is to communicate the songs to the audience. M he’s not being himself as a person. He’s not being emotionally truthful. He might feel really awful on the day. But when he’s on that stage, he has to show the audience those songs, and he has to make them connect with the audience.

Oli: Yeah. This is opening up that whole kind of worms around the artist versus the person, so to speak, in a way, what you just said is really important, and it’s really true. I remember when we had a pre-chat out before the podcast. That’s ultimately what we’re talking about, right?

James: Absolutely.

Oli: If you write a song, and, it’s an expression of some emotional stuff that you’re going through, it’s allowing you to face those emotions and to deal with them and go through the process of catharsis and all that kind of thing, then by the time you share that song with the world, you may no longer be feeling those kind of emotions.

But because that song basically encapsulates those emotions, then when it goes out into the world, then it’s going to trigger those kind of emotions in other people, or it’s going to trigger other things and allow them to think whatever it is that they need to think and feel whatever is they need to think based on their stuff, because we all interpret art through our own egos and identities and everything anyway.

But then if an artist ends up on stage exactly like you said, they may not be feeling that song, but they want to keep it going for the connection with the audience. In a way, when it gets to that point, it’s almost like the song or the piece of art has a life of its own. The artist’s job is not to be themselves on the stage in that particular case, but to express something that they once felt, but not by feeling it, but almost just by poking the fires to keep it going a little bit – if that makes sense. And if that is true in many cases, then what does that tell us about the artist versus the product that they create versus the, person themselves?

James: Yeah. Well, for me, I think in that situation, the person, not the person, the artist, becomes a brand. So if they’re on a tour, if they’re on this year long tour, a gig every night, they are representing the brand, which, whatever their artist’s name is. So they might be Elton John. He is Elton John when he’s on that stage.

And every night he has to deliver what the brand is. The thing is, you don’t see Balenciaga being sad one night and then happy. The consistency, it’s a timelessness, and that is what they’re selling. They’re selling. This is a song when it was released, and it is the same song throughout history, and no matter when it’s performed, it will be that song.

Oli: Wow Yeah. In a way, it’s a brand promise. Like a brand in many ways. It’s just a bunch of promises. And one of them is exactly what you said about being consistent, delivering an experience and a set of values and all that kind of stuff. So, what you just said is actually kind of genius because the brand, it brings it all together, like the art, the person and the artist as they show up on stage.

So when it comes to you then and your stuff, what is your brand? I guess. How did you decide what it was going to be all about? How is it an expression of maybe a higher version of you or something like that, I suppose. What are you trying to do with your brand in that kind of context?

James: I think my brand is basically, it’s communicating everything that I enjoy in music. The sort of aesthetic and the style is very 70s, very sort of classic rock, classic music, iconic, sort of front frontmen and frontwomen, that kind of vibe. But I think the music is just…Whatever excites me. Just energetic and fun and sort of – I like a timelessness with things like how you can listen to some fantastic songs from the. They still stand up.

I love that kind of element where a song doesn’t have to be sort of steeped in the era in which it’s created. It can kind of just last.

Oli: I think that is so important, that timelessness. Normally on this podcast, I get very philosophical and I always just end up saying the same thing, which is that the human, experience is a journey from a state of fragmentation, where we kind of split and divided in ourselves, and we have to move towards wholeness, basically, where we’re more connected to who we really are, more connected to other people and more connected to life.

I think the way that we do that is by tapping into the timeless or, universal sides of just the human experience. And if we can do that, we realize that the universal and timeless stuff is the same for every single one of us.

But our journey, absolutely, our journey into it is particular and specific. And I think that the best art, the best creative projects show us what that timelessness is, but they bring us into it through the unique experience of the artist, ultimately. And it shows us absolutely how our experience relates to that.

And so what you’re tapping into is exactly that, right? Like, you’ve got the timelessness of, I guess, energy and just the human experience and all that kind of thing. But you’re bringing people into it with the things that you specifically like, based on the things that you’ve experienced in your life and all that kind of thing. But it’s all about bringing people back to that connection, I guess, to themselves and to wholeness.

Success as an artist is always dependent on an audience.

So I guess the question I want to ask is what promises are you making for your audience in that kind of a context? So we said the brand is a bunch of promises. You’re bringing people together, around a specific, timeless sort of energy, let’s say. Yeah, there are certain promises that you’re making to them by doing that. If I’m not making this too, intellectualized.

James: No, absolutely. Yeah. I think, well, there’s something that I say at, the start of every live gig I do, and it’s after the first few songs, I’m talking to the audience for the first time. I say for the next half hour, 45 minutes, however long the set is, our job on this stage is to entertain you. I want you all to leave completely entertained. I want you to go away thinking, that was a fantastic show. And I think that kind of embodies the brand.

Promise not to be vague on it, but just entertainment. And anything I put out, music or Instagram reels or TikToks or any form of content, I’m always just thinking, I want people to laugh at this, enjoy the music, or think, that’s a great picture, great. Know any form of the James Sebastian brand that they experience. I want them to go away and think, “You know what? I want to see more of that.” And it’s a promise of kind of, if they enjoy it, then they will get more of that and kind of crafting this brand based on people’s enjoyment of it.

Oli: Yeah, in a way, it doesn’t have to be that complicated, does it? Like, if you just promise, right, every show you come to, every piece of content I put out there is going to entertain you, it’s going to add value, then that is enough for you to build a real connection with your audience.

James: Precisely, yeah. Because when I’m m on stage, I’m throwing myself about, I’m sweating, I take my shirt off, I’ve got glitter on, and I’m like, if all of this is ticking the boxes for people that come and they come back, then I’m going to do that every single time and I’ll do even more if it brings more people. And it’s just that commitment to saying, look, I’m here to perform, and you guys tell me, not tell me, but you guys indicate which things you prefer. And we’re going to hone this into the absolute perfect watching experience, listening experience, the whole shebang.

Oli: It is a two way relationship, isn’t it? Like you’re performing for yourself in a way. I’m assuming when you’re on stage, we’ll get into it. Maybe when you’re on stage, you’re expressing a more real version of yourself, or you’re expressing sides of yourself that you can always experience, but also the audience is kind of giving you feedback about whether or not you should keep following that thread, I guess, if that makes sense. Yeah, the feedback is like you said, if people keep coming back, then you’ve found that sweet spot almost. It’s like there’s a calibration that’s constantly taking place. Something.

James: Yeah, definitely. Because, all artists, any artist, no matter how popular, big or small, the audience, you are accountable to your audience. And success as an artist is always dependent on an audience. Obviously, you need people to, if we’re talking music, you need people to listen to your songs. If you’re an actor, you want people to come and watch your things. And it’s all that kind of.

You have to be sort of in sync with your fans and the people that enjoy what you do, and you have to appreciate them and reach out to them and say, are you liking what’s coming out? Are you not liking it? what kind of things are you wanting to hear? And obviously, like with anything in life, you can’t please everyone. If you tried to please everyone, you would get nothing done.

Yeah, but the beauty of talking to a fan base and an audience that knows you is they know you. And it’s kind of self-explanatory because they know you and they know what you put out. And if you deviate from that too far and if you go a bit strange or a bit wild or you have a breakdown or something, they’re there to kind of pull you back and say, don’t worry, we know we’re connected with you in this. We listen to the songs that you’ve put out. We know who you are, we’ve seen you perform, we know who you are. And it doesn’t matter that you’ve gone and done a strange spoken word album or something like that, come back here. And it’s a collaborative thing. At the end of the day, with an audience.

Oli: It’s actually amazing what you just said. It’s a collaboration about shaping and moulding you into being the best version of yourself in a strange.

James: Absolutely, yeah.

Oli: They connect with you initially around either the entertainment value that you’re putting out on stage or something that they connect to in your songs. That sets the tone of the relationship in relation to the brand promises and all that stuff we were talking about. And if you deviate too far from that, they’re basically going to call you back to yourself.

Because in a way, let’s say hypothetically, right, you have a depressive episode or something, something goes wrong in life and you end up creating like a spoken word album, like you said. And it’s the most maudlin, depressing thing you can imagine. You’re feeling sorry for yourself, whereas the audience know that is not who you really are.

James: Exactly.

Oli: Yeah. The feedback you would get, it’s almost going to be like a wakeup call to bring you back to yourself. And so that two way relationship is about them leading you, but also you leading them to some extent.

Like initially you’re setting the tone of the whole thing, the whole community, but they’re protecting it. They’re protecting the boundaries of it, basically by the collective feedback that they give you. That’s really powerful. But is there like a fine line?

How do you maintain that relationship whilst maintaining your own integrity and also not pandering to the audience too much? What I mean is some artists, I assume if that is the dynamic, could end up becoming like people pleasers – they could become a people pleaser, in relation to their audience. And so eventually, the audience might lose respect for them or something because they’re pandering too much.

There’s a sweet spot, I guess, where you’re still going in your own direction, you are leading the way and, you’re taking them with you. But at the same time they’re giving you feedback about whether that’s the direction they want to move in.

James: Something like that, for sure, because it’s not a fine art, obviously. There are, numerous albums which are released and critically panned at the time. And then 2030 years later, people look at them and go, actually, this is a fantastic body of work.

But I think they are often more. It’s because it’s sort of ahead of their time. That’s the thing with, with works like that is fans will appreciate it, but when they reach a certain point, and I think. I think the thing. The thing with a fan base and pandering to it is so much of the time, I think people would just appreciate good work, good art, and the thing that comes to mind is, Bob Dylan, who went through a bit of a bit of sort of dry creative spell in the late sixties to early seventies.

And the music, it didn’t sound like he was sort of committed to it. It sounded like he wasn’t really in the songs. They were sort of half hearted, half written songs, and there wasn’t much excitement in the recording. Then he recorded, an album called blood on the tracks. And it was a very much.

You could tell he was passionate about the songs. He had spent a long time recording them. He was in the studio doing it for months and months and months. And it was like, for the press, they weren’t a big fan of it, but the audience themselves loved it. And I think it’s so sort of indicative that if you put in a good performance, the audience is going to see that at some point or another, they’re going to go, you know what? That’s something. As opposed to a half-hearted album, which will probably never be praised at the same degree because there’s not anything in there that’s going to be seen eventually.

Oli: There was another incident with Bob Dylan, right, where he went electric or something like that that’s relevant as well.

James: Absolutely. I think it was the Newport Folk Festival of 1965, where he’d released four acoustic albums. He was the voice of a generation, this whole acoustic thing. And then suddenly he’s playing electric guitar, he’s got a backing band, and, one of the audience members, I think they famously shouted Judas from the crowd. And it was like, “Wow, he’s been turned on.”

And I think the problem with that was that the audience hadn’t heard the stuff. And it was almost a reaction to the brand completely changing. If you think about Bob Dylan, you do think folk singer, voice of a generation kind of thing. And then to suddenly have that ripped from under the audience’s feet, it’s a shock reaction.  

Over the years, they settled for it and it became part of him and he became a much more varied artist. But I think at the time, when you’ve built a crowd and an audience and a fan base from a specific brand, and then it’s such a sort of, such a twist, such an out of left field, they’re going to feel slightly somewhere between betrayed and just shocked.

Oli: Yeah, I think it goes back to the promise thing. Like, in a way, people, they expect certain things from brands, blah, blah, blah, but also the brands that we love and that we consistently use over the course of our lives. Our identities are invested in them as well.

You know, if we think we’re like a, hippie or whatever, listening to acoustic music and chilling out, and then suddenly Bob Dylan wheels out the electric guitar, then it’s not just the music that we’re concerned about. It’s our identity as a whole and our resistance to, I suppose, letting go of what we thought we had. And I suppose that, brings on this question of who owns the art, if that makes sense.

Once you’ve created something and it’s out there, it’s no longer just yours, is it? Like it ends up becoming this communal thing, and even the original meaning of it can become distorted or lost completely. Because absolutely, this identity problem, like everyone’s identifying with things, I think, in terms of who owns the art, it is whoever listens to it.

James: And that’s the difficulty as an artist. It’s sort of the flip side of the coin. So obviously, the artist is completely indebted to the audience and is completely accountable to them. But on the other hand, the audience has to respect that the artist is a creator. And you don’t want to shoehorn a creator, into a sort of safe space.

You never want them to be in their comfort zone because that’s when they make boring music. And if we take the Bob Dylan example, he’s done four albums of acoustic stuff and he’s thinking, am I going to do four more? Know, is this the dead horse I’m going to flog for the rest of my career?

But instead, he turns electric, creates a brand new sort of section of the Bob Dylan brand. And it’s the audience’s responsibility. Like, we said, it’s a two way thing. It’s the audience’s responsibility to almost give him the benefit of the doubt and say, “Okay, we’re invested in you as a brand, as a creator, and we’re going to let you try this new thing. We’re going to listen to it. If we enjoy it, then it becomes part of the thing. If we don’t, then we’re going to let you know we’re not going to enjoy it. And then, you’re going to have to go back to the drawing board.”

It’s kind of like the approval of the audience is a necessary thing for an artist, but they also need to feel, they need to be flexible in their understanding of how an artist works.

Oli: Yeah, there’s an element of trust. Like the audience has to trust that the artist is going to take them where they really need to go, even if they can’t see it. There’s always an aspirational element to the community that builds around an audience, around an artist, your audience that you’ve built, for example. They probably share a lot of similar aspirations. Let’s make it simple.

They might all share certain values, for example, that they want to do something with. Entertainment is an obvious one, creativity is an obvious one, etc. etc. Your job as the leader of that community that’s built around you is to take those values in a direction that’s going to serve everybody. And the audience really has to trust you to be able to do that.

And obviously, if they keep coming back like you’re saying, that’s the feedback, that the direction you’re going in is the right direction for them. And I suppose eventually that is going to probably involve that your sound might have to change, or you might have to go from acoustic to electric or whatever it is. Because if an artist does stagnate, like you’re saying, then there’s no longer a community because the community is going to lose direction. And so it is for sure something there about, ah, direction.

James: Absolutely. I mean, something that just came to mind while we were talking about that was, the sort of similarity. When you said like leader, the leadership of a section of a community, it kind of reminded me of, a sort of political thing where in a representative democracy, like we got in the UK, we elect politicians to represent us for a certain amount of time.

Four years, five, know, obviously they are trying to appeal to us, and if they appeal to us, then we support them. But then in supporting them, we have to say, okay, you have four years, five years to do what you can, okay? And we’re giving you that flexibility.

It’s almost a very similar thing with the artists in the audience in terms of you win an audience’s support in inverted commas, you get elected and then they’ve given you that time in office in government to be the leader, to run the community, run the country. However, whatever analogy fits, and then you will be re-elected if they like what you’ve done.

Oli: It really is that simple. It’s a great analogy. How would you say you might be leading your community in the terms we’ve been using? Have you got a direction that you see yourself taking people in? it might not be a conscious thing, but if you actually step back and break it down, is that actually what’s going on?

James: I think so. And I think it’s, it’s not necessarily a sort of big direction. I think it just boils down to that entertainment and that enjoyment. And personally, I love interacting with audiences. After shows, I’ll always go around and talk to as many people as possible on social media. I’ll always message new followers and sort of welcome them, and have a chat with them and see what music they like and see what connections we all have.

And I think it just breeds a much stronger community. and in terms of how that leads into the direction that we’re taking, I think as long as I’m enjoying doing it and they’re enjoying whatever it is I do, because I never want to nail myself down to something and say, this is the specific genre that I’m going to do. It’s more of an open freedom to say, I’m going to create music that I enjoy. As long as you guys also enjoy it. Then we’ve kind of got a fantastic thing going on here..

Oli: Yeah, if we take it to, a slightly deeper level than just the entertainment thing, which is, go for it, super valuable in itself. But if we look at it in terms of just basic human needs, what are you providing for people? Because it seems like obviously we’re all human and we’re talking about the universal and the specific and all that timeless energy that people crave, really.

Is it just about a sense of belonging or it’s a sense of being seen by other people or something like that? There is something deeply human going on, even though we kind of say, no, it’s just entertainment or whatever, it’s bigger than just that.

James: Absolutely. I think in terms of what I want to be to people, what I want to represent, to, people that come and join, I want to just be that person, that brand, that symbol that’s always there for people, especially on an outreach sort of level, so they might enjoy the music, but I want people to feel comfortable dropping me a message and just saying, just talking, about whatever they want to talk about.

I’ve got a few sort of friends on social media who developed from the music. You know, they. I met them through them following and saying, “I like this song”. And now they’re. Now they’re close friends, and that’s… I love that element of it. And I think as much as possible, I would just want to be on such a connected level with any fans so that no one ever felt alone. I think that would be wonderful to just be a, consistent person, consistent individual in everyone’s life.

Oli: So that is the direction, I guess, just bringing people together, in that real way, I suppose. Also, do you think there’s an element where, because you’re the leader of this community, in the language you keep using, there are going to be people in that audience. They’re kind of looking up to you on that stage covered in glitter and going a bit crazy or whatever and they want to be like that.

And in a way, you’re giving them permission, in a sense, to kind of absolutely free themselves a little bit as well. I think a lot of the time when people, they feel like they don’t belong and all that kind of stuff, it’s because they are holding back. And so they need somebody who’s got the balls, I guess, to just get out there, because if they can see somebody else doing it, they can see themselves doing for sure something like that.

James: That is so true, because I think I would love to inspire as many people as possible with my performances, with the music, because I am a confident person and that’s developed over the years.

Obviously, being on stage a lot and talking to tons of different people every night, you sort of know how to talk to large groups of people and how to be yourself in front of large groups of people and be eccentric and flamboyant and not be worried about what people think of you. And, it’d be so wonderful if even just one person sort of saw a show, went away and thought, “You know what? I’m going to wear what I want and not worry about what people think. I’m going to walk down the street with glitter on my cheeks and not worry about what people think.”

I think that’d be such a beautiful thing to have brought about for someone because the confidence is so fun for me, and it’s so fun to do that and to sort of introduce the ability to have that fun for someone else as well would be so cool..

Oli: Yeah, you’re modeling how to do that. It’s actually amazing.

James: Yeah.

Oli: That’s all most people want. I find they just want to stop caring about things that they know don’t matter, stop holding themselves back, stop hesitating with mental blocks and bullshit, basically.

So interesting. So we’ve covered a lot of stuff. I’m going to put the onus on you now to try and sum this all up. I don’t know if you’ve got any final words of wisdom based on everything we just discussed.

James: Words of wisdom.

Oli: No pressure. Can you let people know where they can find you as well, please?

James: Absolutely. Well, I’ll start with that. Just to get that out of the way. James Sebastian on Spotify. at James Seb music, all lowercase on Instagram and, TikTok and Twitter and Facebook. I’m literally everywhere. I’ve got so much music coming out, new stuff, gigs everywhere across the UK. So please do come and follow.

And in terms of words of wisdom, I think the most important thing in terms of music, audience, artist, all of what we’ve discussed is just, understanding yourself and the connection you have to music. And you don’t have to have it figured out. You don’t have to be there yet. That’s not what’s important. It’s feeling able to go to a show and connect with something and not be afraid to feel a song, not be afraid to see what an artist is doing and think, I love what they’re doing. I’m going to go and push for that as well, because that’s what they’re trying to entertain you. That’s all that they’re trying to do. And if they can inspire you as well, then that’s another cherry on top of the cake.

Oli: That’s awesome, James. Thank you so much.

James: Thank you so much, Oli.

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