by Oli Anderson, Transformational Coach for Realness
Creative Status is a podcast about using creativity as a vehicle for improving your life by deconstructing ego, integrating the shadow self, and designing and manifesting a real life.
Every episode explores how the creative process can help you GROW REAL by moving towards wholeness in yourself by making the unconscious conscious.
In this episode of Creative Status I have a deep dive into masculine and feminine polarity with Veronika Ayama.
Veronika helps men and women build lasting relationships filled with respect, understanding and love. She has been working as a Coach and Conscious Relationship Teacher since 2019, helping thousands of people overcome their dating anxieties, resolve toxic relationship patterns and keep attraction alive through healthy polarity.
In this conversation, we focus on the ‘healthy polarity’ element of her work and explore:
-What sexual polarity even is.
-Some of the myths around ‘masculine’ and ‘feminine’ energies.
-How we can tune into our own dominant polarity and improve our lives exponentially.
-How social programming and ego ‘stuff’ can hold us back from a real foundation on which to build our lives.
-The ways that men and women can COMPLEMENT each other to get the best out of their relationships with themselves and each other.
This was an awesome conversation about a topic I’ve wanted to explore for a long time.
Check it out if you want to find your own realness when it comes to polarity and live an authentic life with authentic energy.
Peace to all,
Oli
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Leave a voice message to share your thoughts and to be (maybe) featured on future episodes of the podcast: anchor.fm/creativestatus
Episode Links:
Veronika’s Website: https://www.veronika-amaya.com
All Veronika’s links: https://linktr.ee/Veronika_Amaya
Creative Status Links:
The Creative Performance Transformation Lab: olianderson.co.uk/creativeperformance
Follow me on Instagram: instagram.com/olijanderson
My YouTube channel: youtube.com/olianderson
Get my books on Amazon: amazon.com/author/oli
7-Day Personality Transplant System Shock for Realness and Life Purpose: olianderson.co.uk/systemshock
Free one hour creative workshop to take your creative brand or project to the next level: olianderson.co.uk/creativeworkshop
Free 90-Day Journal Challenge: olianderson.co.uk/journal
The Law of Attraction for Realness (mini-course): olianderson.co.uk/lawofattraction
Show Transcript: Masculine & Feminine Polarity for REALNESS
Intro
Oli Anderson: Oh, hi there. Oli Anderson. Here you’re listening to creative status. This is a podcast about facing life head on by embracing your realness, using your creativity to go even more deeply into your relationship with life and everything else, and ultimately becoming who you need to be, which is often who you already are. That’s a very rambling introduction, but there you go.
My name is Oli Anderson. I’m a creative performance coach. I help people to bring more realness into their lives and businesses. Also, the author of a few books around this stuff that I like to talk about every episode of creative status is an interview with an inspiring, scintillating, edifying person. Ideally.
And today is no different. It’s an interview with Veronika Amaya. She is a coach and a healer who helps people to figure out some of their issues, shall we say, with sexual polarity, masculine feminine energy. This is a conversation that I wanted to have with someone for a long time because, in my opinion, there’s just so much tension and stress and bullshit around a lot of these issues that are making people miserable when they don’t need to be. And I wanted to find someone like Veronika who could cut to the chase, cut through all of the nonsense, and just bring it back to the basics about how sexual polarity operates in our lives, how we can tap into our realness through either masculine or feminine energy, how they can come together to improve our lives, how men and women are different, but equal, but still complement each other and all these kind of things.
And so I think with this conversation, we’ve ticked a lot of the boxes that I wanted to be ticking off. Veronika is super real about all this stuff. Loads of insight. I really enjoyed this. And if you’re new to these ideas, I think you’re going to get some really great value out of this. If you’ve thought about these before, then maybe you’re going to get a new spin on things. But either way, this is a good one.
Veronika, thank you so much for your energy and your time and your candid nature, talking about all this stuff. Here we go.
Interview
Oli Anderson: Oh, hi there, Veronika. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Creative status. You’re an expert in one of my favourite topics, which is sexual polarity, the differences between the sexes and the genders and all these different things. You’ve got loads of really cool stuff to say about it. So I’m going to ask you a ton of questions. Before I do, do you feel like introducing yourself, telling people why you do what you do? And also, what you want to get out of this conversation that we’re about to embark upon.
Veronika Amaya: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Oli. I’m so excited to be here. And, yeah, my name is Veronika. I was born and raised in Germany. But have been living abroad many years. I’m now married to a wonderful English man named Matt. And, yeah, I’m a dating and relationship coach. And I really focus on helping people create a conscious relationship which means that we relate with awareness.
We are very aware of the shadows we bring into the relationship and it just helps because most people struggle in relationships. Because of their past baggage. And all the destructive, unhealthy patterns they have picked up. But another really important part of this is also that I teach people healthy polarity. Which means usually in a heterosexual relationship, the man and his masculine; the woman is in her feminine and how to really, like a lost art. But it can bring so much harmony in relationships.
And, of course, long term attraction, which is so important. So that a marriage actually stays fun and connected. Yeah. And just maybe quickly, how I came to do what I do, it’s a classical story, like from pain because my parents were always fighting when I was younger. Chaos and just unhappiness in my household growing up. And I always was longing for this beautiful relationship. And then when I was, like, 26, I realized, oh, my gosh. I also am always fighting with my partners.
And I was like, no, I don’t want the same thing. And so I really embarked on a big journey. To learn how to be harmoniously in relationships. And I’m so glad I did, because even recently with my parents, I was back there. And they learned so much from watching Matt and me interact. And it was like, such a different atmosphere at my house. So it just feels really good.
Oli: That’s awesome. So that’s a good segue into the conversation, I guess, because it sounds like before you started raising your own awareness about your own feminine polarity. And how it relates to the masculine and all that kind of stuff, which we’ll get into. Before you became aware of that, you were basically just kind of acting out some old scripts that you’d picked up from your parents. Probably because they were detached from their own masculinity and femininity in a real way.
And so you took yourself through some kind of a transition. That allowed you to go back to who you really were, I guess. So the assumption being that the scripts you were following were kind of unreal, like social programming. And maybe some self-hypnosis because of emotional stuff, whatever it was. But what was the transformation that you went through? I guess so you could break free of those scripts and kind of step into your realness.
Veronika: Yeah, I love the way that you phrased that. It’s really that. It’s really a script. And my script was that of a very controlling woman. Ah. Which comes always from anxiety, from chaos, as I mentioned – and I was also super harsh and critical towards men because that’s how my mom and all my aunts and basically all the women in my family were.
And yeah, how I broke free from this was at some point it got so painful, and I actually almost separated with my now husband. And he really was the love of my life. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is terrible. , and, yeah, I really had to face my own shadow in a super real way, which I think you were talking a lot about ego.
It’s really this ego death where you are. Like, I consider myself always as a very loving person. And of course, on the inside, I’m super sensitive. Right? So I was just perceiving myself as the sensitive person. But on the outside, I was really harsh. I was very aggressive. , and I was actually, in very many ways, super emotionally immature.
Oli: Wow.
Veronika: And that took really guts for me to acknowledge this. But upon this awareness and just owning it. Wow. There is a real freedom.
Oli: Wow. Yeah. This is something that I’ve seen as well, I guess, in some of my own relationships. And just with people in general. People who are super controlling are usually trying to control the chaos of life so that it doesn’t bring up whatever is hidden within the shadows, within the shadow itself. And so there’s a constant battle between the ego, I think, which is just a false identity we’ve created to try and navigate and survive whatever chaos we have been through.
Like you said, and the shadow self and all of the things that we’ve buried down there. And when we are in a place where we’re really afraid of the shadow stuff surfacing, that’s when we become really controlling. We try and control ourselves. We try and control other people. We try and control life itself by forcing everything to meet our ideas that have all come from the ego anyway. And the only way to kind of transcend that is exactly what you said. We have to bring the shadow self to the surface. And in this particular case, ultimately, I guess what we’re saying is for most people or for many people that are in that kind of a, ah, situation where they’re basically control freaks.
Their true sexual essence or sexual energy, whatever way we want to say it, it’s hidden in the shadow, because most men and most women have actually feared or been conditioned to fear their own energy, if that makes sense. And by fearing that energy, that’s when they become controlling. And the only solution is to learn how to harness it. Something like that. So is that the journey that you went on?
Veronika: Yes, 100%. I love the way you express yourself. , and I think it’s really good to distinguish here between men and women, because most women nowadays are conditioned to be these kick ass boss woman lady and, of course, it’s so beautiful that women now have so much choice and they can make careers and stuff, but we are really conditioned to see this very hard woman as the idol.
And, of course, if you are an anxious, controlling person, or let’s say if you’re anxious person and you are actually afraid of people, you’re afraid to be dominated, even maybe that people are violent towards you, it feels awesome because it’s like a hard shell around you. But the problem is that, first of all, m actually, there’s so much power as a woman in vulnerability.
Because since I have dropped this armour and my heart is truly open, men are. They react 100% different to me. They don’t want to fight me. , they don’t see me as the enemy. They want to protect me. They have this natural urge to be super, like a gentleman towards me because my heart is open. So it doesn’t really work for women.
And additionally, of course, in relationships is that when your heart is so closed, it’s very difficult to create any kind of intimacy with a man that is fulfilling because the masculine to feminine, how it works is that when a woman’s heart is open, she becomes vulnerable. A man craves for this, and then he really wants to all the time be close to her. And then you create this beautiful, harmonious union where he is giving you all this strong masculine energy that women are craving for, and you are giving him your soft love. But also this powerful place as a woman that is deep in this connection and that only comes when you drop this mask. And that’s a very powerful, like, the most powerful women that I have ever met, they were in that place. But it’s rare that you even meet such a woman.
Oli: Yeah. What is the masculine equivalent, do you think? I agree with what you’re saying. For the feminine in its most powerful, and it is powerful. It is about being open to the moment, opening the heart and all that kind of stuff. It is a power. And maybe we should go into why it’s powerful a little bit more. But just to get into some simple definitions of all this stuff we’re talking about, what is the powerful version of the masculine that kind of complements that?
Because I think we’re talking about how these energies are different. And even though they’re different, they complement each other. And it’s not like one is better than the other or anything like that. But it’s about bringing these two powers together to make something even more powerful. Through the union of intimacy or something like that. So just for simplicity, I guess, what is the masculine version of that power?
Veronika: Yeah, I think it always helps to think in sort of, like, tribal cultures. For example, actually, the movie Avatar is so great for that when you always look at the male and the female leader, the male leader is the king and the warrior. So what would that mean as a man who is very assertive driven, who has a lot of foresight, who can really tap into his rational, who’s not guided by all these childish emotions, and who’s so sure of himself that he can really hold space for a woman in all her emotions, but also who can receive her wisdom.
Because why it’s also so powerful that a woman’s heart is open, as I said, first of all, because she can receive. She can be in intimate intimacy with a man, which I think almost all women are really deeply craving for. But also she’s open to receive guidance. And that’s the sage in the woman. And, for example, in my relationship. I mean, my husband loves when I’m in this channeling state where he asks my opinion a lot because he really cherishes that I have this sort of, like, intuitive wisdom. And that’s where the real power is.
It’s in your intuition. And also that you can inspire men to also step into this warrior self. , because when you think about it, right, like, most men are really motivated by fighting for their family, for their woman, making money really becoming their best self. It’s usually always in service of family and their female. And if the female can really receive that and open herself. Then it’s a really powerful union.
Oli: Yeah. There’s a theory. I don’t know who came up with it. I remember reading it, like, years ago. And basically he said, if you look back through history, most things have been built by men. Like, in the sense that civilizations and buildings and infrastructure and all this kind of stuff, it was built by men. But basically this theory said if women didn’t exist and kind of inspire them as muses, then that wouldn’t have happened.
We’d still just be living like, in the jungle or in the Savannah or whatever, and civilization wouldn’t have happened. And so, actually, it’s because of the interplay between the masculine and the feminine and the way that they kind of feed off each other that creativity can even happen in the first place. Is it something like that?
Veronika: Yes, 100%. And when you think about I don’t want to raise this topic if war is good or bad, but when you just think about all the men that ever went into the. Yeah, let’s say you fight for an important cause. It was always to protect the loved ones. I mean, it takes. Imagine our grandfathers, right?
I mean, my grandfather, he was 18, he went into the war. What do you think he was thinking about? He was thinking of his sisters and his mom and the country, that they were safe. That’s what he was fighting for. So I think it’s really amazing. And that’s why what I want to mention here is this point of a woman who is so afraid that she’s not good enough or not as powerful or not as strong as a man. But I think when you are in a really healthy place as a woman, for me, it’s so amazing to see this physical strength of men and also their willingness to fight for us. I see it as a great gift.
And I really admire that in men, and I’m so grateful that they are there. And as you say, they also do all these shit jobs, right, like that I never would want to do. And it doesn’t mean at all that I feel less or anything, but it’s just if you’re really secure in this place of a woman, and you know what you bring to the table, and that men are equally as glad that you exist exactly as you are there’s no need for this insecurity and for this insistence that we have to be equal and women have to do all the things that men do and vice versa.
Oli: Wow. Where do you think this insecurity comes from? What is the main root of it? Because I agree with everything you just said. But if I was one of those kick ass, badass boss babes that you were talking about at the start of the show, and I heard what we just said, that, okay, all these wars are about protecting women and everything, probably I would be outraged. I’d be like, no, I don’t need protection, or I don’t need men fighting walls for me, whatever it is. So what would you say to those kind of people if you ever got in that conversation?
Veronika: Yeah, so I think it’s, of course, really difficult if someone is so deep in that mindset. , but I think I would just ask them questions, and I would just ask them questions in the sense of, why is it such a problem? Let’s say men are stronger. Why is it such a problem for you? Are you maybe afraid of something?
That’s the coaching questions I would ask them. I always like to tell the story about how feminism originated because there was one really important flaw in the way that the first feminism in the 60s or 70s was created. The problem was that women did not move away from the mindset. The mindset was patriarchy. And sort of like this hyper rational masculine or shadow masculine thinking was, like, in the forefront, and then they were like, oh, okay, I want some power. I have to become a man.
That was the whole thinking, instead of saying, wow. Oh, wait a minute – okay, I don’t like how things are. I don’t want to be owned by a man. I don’t want to property. How can I establish femininity and feminine powers as equal as masculine powers? , and that’s why now we have those residues that some extreme feminists think that basically we should all chop our boots off. And that if you decide to be like, ah, a home, stay at home mother, then you are, like, enslaved by the system.
Oli: Yeah.
Veronika: Not understanding that. Wow. For some women, I mean, it’s the absolute fulfilment of their deepest wishes to be a mother. And that’s what I find so sad, because it has not at all stopped this war. It has just intensified it and intensified it and, of course, made many women incredibly unhappy because they are really stuck in this full self, as you said, in this protected, armoured way of being. , and it can really destroy their lives.
Oli: Yeah, 100%. That’s really interesting. In a way, the flaw that you’re talking about with the whole ideology around feminism and everything, it’s confused society with nature, and it’s basically kind of swept nature under the carpet, and it’s just defined its whole agenda through the flawed assumptions of society itself, if that makes sense. And by doing that, it’s basically set a path forward that can never get them where they want to be, because the steps that they’re taking is always going to be about pretence. It’s not about being real.
And in my view, being real is the only thing that can give any of us what we want, which is a feeling of flow and peace and connection to some higher truth and all that kind of thing. And if you’re filtering everything through a worldview, then all you’re actually doing is just adding more layers of complication to your own ego. And as we said at the start of the conversation, the ego and the shadow end up being in a huge conflict.
The ego is always unreal, and the real stuff that needs to emerge is what’s hidden in the shadows and needs to come back to the surface. So that’s me ranting and raving. Do you think there are certain archetypes, or are there certain archetypes that you use in your work that can help people to understand all of this stuff even more clearly?
So, for example, the archetypes I like around the stuff, like, there’s Shiva and Shakti in Hinduism there’s the ying and yang. I think those kind of ideas make up a lot of this stuff kind of metaphorically, in ways that people can kind of get a deeper understanding of. But is there anything like that you use in your work?
Veronika: I don’t work so much with archetypes because I think I’d like to help people experience it on a very physical level. So I help women drop into feminine energy and really feel it. I find that the most powerful. And for men, the same way, like, I always send all my male clients to the gym, to some martial arts training, cold showering.
And the women, I always get them to dance and get them to walk bare feet in nature so that they can really feel it in their own bodies, what it means, because that disconnection is so strong, most people have no idea what masculine feminine energy even is.
And it’s so important because even, let’s say you subscribe to the ideology of gender neutrality which is totally fine, right? I mean, it is also a spiritual path, and I understand the point of being sort of like, also, if you want to choose this to be free of gender, I understand. But at the same time, if you choose this, you should also understand what is feminine and masculine energy and feels in your body. So otherwise, you can’t make the choice.
Right. It’s so unconscious again. So that’s how I do it. I do it with bodily experience. , and it’s really beautiful, because what I also do with women a lot is a womb meditation. And they always report to me that they feel such an inner power and such inner strength. And then I said to them, yeah, this is the power of the feminine. And most of them have never felt that their whole life.
Oli: Yeah. Actually, the archetypes are just a kind of stepping stone into getting to that place that you’re leading your clients, by the sound of it.
Anyway. How would you define if you could? Masculine and feminine energy in the simplest ways. So the reason I like the Shiva and Shakti thing is it basically says Shiva, who is the masculine archetype, is just pure consciousness, pure awareness. Stillness and Shakti, in comparison, is basically motion. And actually, a lot of those ideas that you just shared, I guess, of ways of getting into your respective polarity kind of align with that. So I guess doing martial arts and stuff, you are, like, moving.
But ultimately I’m making assumptions. Maybe it’s about that inner focus of stillness of mind, calmness, discipline. Being locked onto your goals and your purpose and all that kind of stuff. The same with the gym. But then in comparison, like, the kind of more feminine things that you were talking about doing, that is about motion. Dancing around, walking in the forest and all that kind of stuff. So is there something there, like, around the stillness idea for masculine versus motion? And if so, how do we use that knowledge to kind of get into the interplay and start moving towards intimacy more fluidly?
Veronika: Yeah. So I always talk about duality because that’s the best way to understand feminine. Masculine people, those are two energies, like night and day. Like up and down. They are polarized. And everything in this universe and also within yourself can be understood through the lens of masculine and feminine.
As you exactly said the masculine is all the things that the feminine is not. So the feminine is the fluidity, movement, emotion. , and the masculine is the rationality, assertiveness. Like in spirituality, we all say, right? Like, the masculine is like the round symbol. Ah, feminine. And the masculine is the sort of like a forward moving energy.
Oli: Wow.
Veronika: That’s how I describe this. And people then always get it because, I mean, it just makes sense, right? And we live in this dual. Like, everything in our world is dualistic. You cannot escape from it. And I also think it also helps people always to understand that you have both within you. And it’s super, super helpful as well if you know when to use what energy.
Because, of course, for men, it’s also very helpful to know their feminine energy and to be able to use it like what you’re doing now, right? You talk to me in a super empathetic. Way. You’re listening really well and so on and so forth. And, ah, for me, the same thing. Like, if I know how to use my masculine energy is very important. Because sometimes I have to be kick ass or be super rational.
Even the way I coach, I mean, it is, for me, it’s very mind based. I explain relationships to people. And that’s then really helpful. Because it’s all about consciousness and conscious choice in the end. , and not to get into this unconscious place when we are just acting out of these patterns. , and we don’t even know what we are doing. We don’t even know. At least you should understand right now I’m in my hard shell as a woman and my heart is closed. At least you should be able to feel it. And then you can slowly make steps to change it.
Oli: This is a bit of a curveball question. But the way that I understand everything in life now, basically, is that it’s either about wholeness or fragmentation. Wholeness just means we are connected to ourselves on the deepest level. So we’re not fragmented and divided within our relationship with ourselves. We can relate to other people because of that more realistically or with more truth, let’s say.
And then we can connect to life. And there’s been times in my life where I feel like I’ve actually tasted wholeness. And I’ve transcended my ideas about myself in the moment. And I’m just totally connected to everything. So Abraham Maslow, he called these peak experiences. And for me, one that I had that was really powerful. I lived in Japan for a while. I climbed Mount Fuji. And I was like, running down Mount Fuji after climbing it. And I was just taking these massive leaps. And there were the clouds underneath me and everything. You could take leaps because it was made of ash. And I just felt like so alive in that moment.
But other moments like that where I feel wholeness when I’m making love, when I’m doing yoga, when I’m playing my guitar, when I’m hiking in nature, blah, blah, blah. And I think who I experience myself to be in those moments is my true identity. And I think all of us, when we’re fully real or even if we just taste it for a few moments, that is who we really are. We’re not in the ego. We’re not caught up in all the social programming and the blah, blah, blah bullshit of the day to day life.
But when we’re living life on a day to day basis and we’re in a male body or a female body. In general, those bodies come with certain fragmentary paths that we all need to walk. Based on our sexual polarity. Which is obviously, in general, very general terms, ultimate general terms masculine for a man, obviously feminine for a woman, obviously, but to differing degrees slightly. But in general, a man is masculine and blah, blah, blah.
But anyway, do you think that the end result of learning to manage the interplay between masculine and feminine. Is to transcend the duality of both. So that we can taste that kind of wholeness? And I’m ranting at you now. I’ve been going on for ages. Sorry. But we can go into it a bit more. But even in those moments when you’re by yourself. I think there’s an interplay between masculine and feminine. That kind of helps you transcend yourself. And I think there’s something there around the creative process, maybe.
Veronika: Yeah. I view life that we are spiritual beings having a human experience. And I deeply believe that each and every one of us. Chose super consciously into a masculine or a feminine body. In order to experience the qualities. Because, as you said, of course, we have a fundamentally different experience. Just because of our bodies, right? Because of the hormones and all the genitalia and all the things that we have.
And, of course, for example, for a woman, she could have a child, right? Which would be a fundamentally different experience than a man. So I think that actually, it’s a fun thing for our spiritual selves to be like, oh, my God, I can experience to be a woman. And I can experience life from her perspective. And I can. Even having periods or birth. Which there’s also such a fault in our society. We just look at. We want to erase all the pain. We look at all the painful and negative experiences. And think that our soul doesn’t want to experience it.
I deeply believe we want to experience it. Because for them, it’s like a buffet – I think that, for example, my goal is to experience the feminine as deeply as I can. Because I know maybe in the next life I’m going to be a man. So that’s what I wanted to experience. But then, of course, also what you said sometimes and I think that’s also wonderful.
Because if you’re too much in one identity, we can feel super separated. And that’s where all the war starts and so on and so forth. So sometimes we have these moments when we taste the union. And it’s so good to remind us. But I also think there’s a reason why we don’t always feel that, because otherwise we could never have the kind of experience we have. Because I think when we die, we just float around in space and we are like, oh, I’m connected. Nice.
Oli: Yeah, it’s about tension and release. I don’t know how this equates to the masculine feminine thing. Like, I could come up with some ideas, but ultimately, I suppose I’d say in general, the masculine is more tense and the feminine is more about the release. And so this is kind of what I meant when I said, even if you’re by yourself, you don’t necessarily need another human being to be able to balance out and feel those moments of the polarities coming together and allowing those tastes of truth or realness or intimacy or whatever to emerge.
So a simple example, right? Or two simple examples. In general, I am in a pretty masculine kind of energetic state, whatever you want to call it. I’m always kind of on it. Like, I’m doing my goals and I’m working. I’m coaching people, and my coaching is pretty masculine in a way, because it’s all about action and goals and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so when I go hiking, for example, that is actually me kind of reconnecting to the feminine.
And by reconnecting to the feminine in nature, because I think nature is a very feminine place, then it allows my masculine to kind of balance out, even if it’s just for a moment. And it’s in that balancing out where I get to taste something real, because I transcend duality through the balancing, if that makes sense. Another example is if I’m playing my guitar. So normally I’m on calls all day, either doing this podcast or coaching people in that masculine place, blah, blah, blah, let’s stay on top of things and get things done. And then at the end of the day, I’ll shut my laptop, I’ll go downstairs, play my guitar, and then do yoga, actually.
And doing yoga and playing my guitar again, it’s giving me that balance, like it’s bringing my masculine tension, I guess, back to the present moment. And in that, that’s when I get to kind of dissolve. The state of dissolution is something I’m always chasing. And what that basically means is, like, I’ll put myself in a place, especially at the end of a yoga session, where my mind basically dissolves, my ego kind of dissolves, and I just melt into everything at the end of a yoga session in Shavasana.
And then, exactly like you said, the world starts to creep back in. And that taste goes, and I’m back out of balance, I guess. But is there something there? Because even when we’re making love, like, if it’s with someone that you actually really love and there’s that masculine feminine polarity, what happens is when you get true intimacy, it’s the same thing. It sounds really cheesy, but it’s not just two people. Making love is. It’s like one thing. And that oneness, that taste can only come about from the balance of masculine and feminine. That helps you transcend the world? Something like that.
Veronika: 100%. And I think it’s so beautiful what you are describing, because I think that’s so helpful for people to know that, as you said, for example, when you had this really intense workday, and you’re like, oh, now I’m right. And it’s intense being in a masculine right. You can balance it out with the feminine. , and what I also wanted to add here, that this is for the women listening.
This can be such a helpful practice for you when you are in a very high powered job where you have to be in masculine energy, right. To make it it’s so good when you come home and before you sort of are going into the rest of your day, that you do a practice that deliberately puts you into feminine energy.
Because this can be, like, such an absolute blessing for your relationship. Because actually, for women, if she would be all the workday in the masculine energy, and then she comes home and she stays in the masculine, at some point it can make her sick, or it can really be very terrible for her relationship because her man wants her to relax and that he can be the masculine. But, yeah, so to what you were saying, 100%. and that’s why also I’m super interested in tantra and sex magic and all that stuff.
Because, as you were saying, it’s such a sacred thing. And people really. I mean, there’s also so wrong into our materialistic world. They just view sex from this total, like it’s just a physical thing, blah, blah, blah. And I absolutely don’t believe that that’s true. And that we can really taste, as you said, like, oneness. And it can be such a beautiful spiritual experience. And I think it is good. especially because I think that is when we talk about all these subjects, always, the point is not that you think like, oh, this is a woman, and I’m so different than her.
No, of course. I’m a human being. Right. So we are fundamentally the same on a spiritual level, we are fundamentally one. But you can see me as this other human being who has a very different experience. And you can enjoy talking with me and being like, oh, she’s a woman. How cool. , I love her energy because it’s different in mine. That’s what it’s about.
Oli: Maybe like 10 minutes ago, I went on this big rant about wholeness and fragmentation. That’s ultimately what I was saying. So the human experience of moving from fragmentation to wholeness is the same for all of us, regardless of what body we’re in. But the path that we have to take is dictated by our bodies first and foremost. But then also the experiences we have that cause our unique incarnation of the ego and all this kind of stuff. But the journey is always the same. It’s the return back to wholeness.
But if you’re attached to some ego version of yourself because of your fear about your own underlying energy, either masculine or feminine, then you’re going to make it really difficult to walk the path that only you can walk. And you’ll never get to where we all want to be, which is to that reconnection to wholeness, ultimately. And that leads me to a question I’ve got for you around balancing our relationship with our sexual energy by finding the strength to really accept it.
And by this, what I really mean is, right. I think because of all the cultural conditioning and our own fears about life and other people and all this stuff, a lot of us find it hard to accept ourselves first and foremost. And by extension, because we can’t accept ourselves, we don’t accept our energy. And so it becomes kind of distorted or polluted, and it shows up out of balance. And the only way that things can show up out of balance is it’s either too much or too little. And in the case of the masculine, for example, I think if it shows up too much because they’re kind of insecure about even being a man in the first place and stuff like this. Maybe they read some stuff on the Internet about divine masculine or whatever it is.
So they try and turn the vole all the way up on being masculine. And they just end up kind of in an asshole, right? Like, they become hyper aggressive and they’re Never in the feminine because they think it’s totally weak. And they’re like a pneumatic drill, just kind of hammering against life. And that shows up in their relationships with people and how they want to dominate everything and all that stuff. A lot of those qualities are really important.
Like, I’m not saying we shouldn’t be aggressive or anything like that. We should, like, 100 million%. You’re not going to get where you need to be without being aggressive. But if you turn it up too much, you become kind of a cartoon version of masculinity. And if you go the other way, like, you turn the vole down because you’re scared of where your masculinity might take you, that’s when you become one of these guys who is kind of a very passive, wishy washy individual. They got no boundaries. They might be like a nice guy and all this kind of stuff. Everyone’s walking all over them and etc. Etc. We’ve all met guys like this, right?
And it’s because they’ve turned the volume down too much. And in both cases, whether the volume’s all the way up or it’s all the way down, it’s weakness. And I think the strength that we have to find is to calibrate it so that we truly accept ourselves and what that energy is. But we also know what we want to do with it, where we want to take it, who we want to be, who we want to become, and all that kind of stuff.
So two questions, I guess: One, how do we find that balance? And two, how does that show up for the feminine, do you think? Either turning the vole down because we’re afraid of it and where it might lead us, how it might bring the shadow self up and all that stuff, and if we turn it all the way up, is there kind of a toxic femininity? I guess people talk about toxic masculinity, which is the vole up version, but is there a feminine equivalent?
Veronika: Yeah. First of all, I hate the word toxic masculinity. It triggers me. And, yeah, I tell all my clients, don’t use it. It just perpetuates their war. But of course, I know what you mean. , and what I also wanted to say, I don’t like the word balance, also because I think it’s, like a harsh word. I like the word harmony. So how can we harmonize this?
What you are saying 100%. You were describing the masculine and the feminine. So there’s this couple from hell. It’s the nice guy and the controlling woman. They always find each other. So that would be the femininity. , turned, . I guess it’s more turned too much down. How can it? Yeah, it’s more turned too much down because what it means. So when a woman is controlling, really domineering, really hard, has this armour of protection around her.
Her femininity is actually too low because she does not allow herself to be really in her soft, feminine which is connected. , and of course she loves then the nice guy because she can control him. And the nice guy loves her because he is looking for a leader. So they always find each other. , and then if the femininity is too high, what that means is that she has no boundaries. She is always emotional. She’s super unsure of herself. She’s a mega people pleaser, self-sacrificer, sort of like that typical 50s housewife that then gets coupled with as you said domineering guy, the controlling husband who does not see his wife at all, who just makes all the rules and he doesn’t care about her. So that’s those two shadow couples, basically.
Oli: So how do we harmonize in the way that you’re talking about? Because I think ultimately this whole podcast is about the process of growing real and how we can use creativity to do that. And blah, blah, blah. And a big part of that is accepting ourselves and life enough to be able to get out of the ego and to harmonize ourselves and our lives, or our relationship with ourselves and lives so that we can live the life we want.
And actually, all of those examples we’ve given of both masculine and feminine too much and too little, I would say they’re kind of motivated or prompted by a relationship with ourselves that is fuelled by shame. When we have shame, that’s when we basically disconnected from the truth about ourselves. We go into the ego place and we do all these things we’re talking about.
We try and dominate everyone, we try and control life, we become weak willed, etc. Etc. It’s shame. And this goes back to what we’re saying about human beings and the human experience that’s universal versus more specific experiences that we have as individuals in our individual bodies. And blah, blah, blah. And the human experience, I think, of moving from fragmentation to wholeness is ultimately about dissolving shame.
Because when we’re motivated and driven by shame, that’s when we end up in the ego and we’re trying to basically hide from life. And only if we can have those tastes of wholeness that we were talking about can we realize our true identities beyond any shame of any kind. And so paradoxically, and, maybe even ironically, the way for most people to dissolve that shame is to find a relationship where they can kind of balance themselves out and realize that the shame that’s driving them into ego is totally unreal. And so it comes back to intimacy. But the only way we can do that is if we trust ourselves in some way to find harmony in the first place. I don’t know if that even makes sense. But do you see what I’m saying?
Veronika: It makes so much sense, 100%. And it’s such a lovely place to start from, because the shame, as you said, I would say it’s one of the most powerful drivers, shame and fear. , and shame is actually a physiological reaction within us, because a human being is so, like, the most important thing for us is to be connected, to stay safe. Because a human being, like a little baby, if you put it on the street, it dies, right? So since we are born, we want to please the social group around us, especially our caregivers. So what shame does is if the caregivers do not approve of something within us, we inside of ourselves push that part of ourselves away so as to please our parents, to make sure that they’re not going to let us die. Right. , so that’s what shame is. Yeah. It’s basically a survival mechanism of children.
Oli: Exactly that. But actually, what you’ve just described as well is the starting point of that dance between the ego and the shadow. Because as soon as we feel that shame enough to disown parts of ourselves, that’s when we send them into hiding and we create this version of ourselves which is just designed to protect us by fitting into society, basically.
Like you said, it’s a survival thing. But the day that happens and you start wearing that mask, that’s when you become disconnected. And it causes the lack of harmony that you’re talking about. It all stems from that. And so the way back home to wholeness is to basically sever that sense of disconnection, which is a weird way of phrasing it. But only if you realize that you’re already connected can you start to harmonize yourself and then put yourself in your polarity, your sexual polarity, because it’s part of reality, ultimately. And without the shame, you’re going to be able to accept life, accept yourself, and then start putting yourself on the path to be able to have intimacy with yourself and life. But then, more importantly, in the context of what we’re talking about in your relationship.
Veronika: Yes. And what I wanted to add here is that the biggest or the best ways away from shame or through the shame, is actually when you are with someone who crazily approves of whatever you feel shame about.
Like, for example, I have a male client. And his journey since I’ve started working with him is all about loving and accepting the more aggressive side of himself. Because when he was young, his mom always told him that he’s a horrible, bad child and that he, ah, should never be aggressive to others.
Essentially because she wanted to control and she didn’t like it that he was setting boundaries with her. And so he now created this whole elaborate personality where he’s nice. , and, oh, my God, it’s so bad when a guy is, like, mean and toxic masculinity. And, of course, right, he then finds all these left wing people who sort of, like, who make this picture strong in him. , so with me, for the first time, he was actually able to admit that he loves the feeling of anger because it makes him feel powerful.
And then what I do as a coach, I’m like, nice. And you know what? I love this side of you. It’s wonderful. Of course, not that he becomes a horrible bully and starts spitting people up, but just that he can integrate this and see all the positive things that he has disowned. So what I wanted to tell you guys is, if you have not done much self development, I would just get so curious. Is my personality actually real, or is it fake? Because I would argue for most people, it’s fake.
Oli: It’s fake.
Veronika: 100% it’s fake. That’s just what helped you survive childhood.
Oli: Yeah. That’s the biggest problem in the world, like identity. False identity. And that example you just shared from your client, it’s a textbook case of what we’re talking about. So as soon as his mother shamed him around his aggressiveness, he started to judge himself, and he entered a world of judgment, basically. And when that happened, that basically created the ego. The ego just is judgment. Judgment against the self, judgment against life, judgment against other people.
And we dance through all these hoops and create this false personality, in his case, been a nice guy to try and justify the bullshit story that we’re telling ourselves. And ultimately, it goes back to what we’re saying about duality, because anger itself, aggressiveness itself, is beyond duality. It’s what you do with it that causes problems. But the anger is energy. It’s very important. It’s very real.
And as soon as you start judging it, that’s when you disconnect it. You send it into the shadow self. And that’s why there’s so many guys out there that are just kind of been overly nice. They’re being controlled by culture in the way that you just said they’ve been controlled by other people. And there’s a quote that I love by Nietzsche. He said, in times of peace, the warlike man attacks himself. And I think that’s what’s going on with loads of these guys, because their anger gets internalized. And they’re living in a little bubble because they’ve been too nice to go out and change the world in the need to or change their lives. And so they end up being depressed.
But ultimately, what you’ve helped him to do is to just look at his anger without any judgment and to accept it as part of who he is. And then that energy of the anger can start moving him forward. He can align himself with his purpose. He can transmute it into doing whatever he needs to do. He can help him to create the life that he wants. And many guys I have found, like, in my own coaching practice, they have that problem.
Their anger and aggression has basically been beaten out of them. In fact, it happened to me when I was a kid. Like, I went through this process. My dad, when I was around, I don’t know, 12, 13, 14, whatever it was, suddenly he became afraid of my anger. And anytime I showed anger he would get, like, super aggressive and super violent because he didn’t want me to get older and to no longer see him as a threat or whatever. I don’t know what was going on in his head.
And so for years and years, I actually kind of disowned my anger. Like, I used to be a super aggressive kid, and then all of a sudden, I just kind of froze up for, like, a few years. And then I went through the process of realizing what was going on. I owned it, and I could put it into my purpose, and it was the only way that I could become more real and get rid of loads of bullshit, basically because of the personality I’d created for myself. So, anyway, I’m ranting and raving.
Veronika: Sorry, can I just say one more thing?
Oli: Yeah.
Veronika: Because it’s such an important topic, I think. , yeah, so what you were describing, I mean, I’m just so glad. And I think you probably have this experience so that now when you’re coaching, you can teach men. Because I also think it’s one of the biggest problems in our society, because basically most men now are almost like, you could say that they are called, that they are demasculinized, and you create this really gullible, weak man.
And if you want to weaken a society, that’s the way to go. And I’m so concerned also about men’s mental health and the raging depression rates that we have. M and actually, I lost a really important man in my family to suicide. And this is actually what really started my path, because I realized, oh, my gosh, there’s something so wrong in our society. And then that’s also why I hate this word, toxic masculinity, because I’m like, not at all. Are we saying that men should be how they were, like, in the. But right now there are so many amazing awakened men like you and also a lot of nice guys. , but they are the other extreme, and that’s also, like, equally terrible, I would say.
Oli: Yeah.
Veronika: I’m so glad that you are on this path, and I think it’s such an amazing thing you’re doing for new coaching clients. So I just wanted to say that that really fills my heart with joy, and, yeah, I’m so happy about that.
Oli: Well, thank you. I’m just happy that there are people out there in the world who can have these kind of conversations, because in my experience, and from what I’ve seen with my clients and the kind of people I’m talking about, who basically just detached from their realness, and it applies to women as well. I’ve worked with women as well, who are, like, suffering the consequences of being detached from who they are.
It’s always the same problem. Exactly like you said, there’s a personality problem that people have, which I call the ego. But anyway, all of this stuff is so real and it’s so important and it’s so simple to change, because all you need to do to get back on the path that is going to make you feel good and allow you to have better relationships is to accept yourself. You just need to stop judging yourself and believing all the stuff that’s been picked up from the outside world that you’ve internalized. , and even though it’s so simple and it’s so powerful, a lot of people would find this conversation that we’re having really controversial and really offensive or whatever.
And it’s because I think they’re detached from who they really are, and they’re basically trying to control conversations that people have to protect their own misery. That’s the irony of the situation. And people just need to know this stuff, because it’s not about men being better than women or women being better than women. It’s about the fact that we’re all human, like you said, but we need to embrace the way that we are. In order to complement each other and then build a world and a society that is actually real and good for human nature instead of this weird monstrosity that we’ve built called modern culture, where nobody really knows who they are anymore.
There’s just a real sense of doom and chaos. But it doesn’t need to be that way. Anyway, this has been a really good one. And I’ve gone over the time that I said I would because I feel like I could talk to you, like, for hours and hours. , how would you s all this up? What’s the main lesson? And can you tell people where they can find you if they want to read more about your work or watch your YouTube videos and stuff and work with you or whatever else?
Veronika: I think to sum it all up, the main lesson is just because the media and the world right now tells you that we are all so evolved and we know so much, do not doubt for one, do not believe for 1 minute that we are in an awakened society. We are in a very unconscious society.
So, as you said, I would say the most important thing is drop within and really see what’s your truth, what is true for you. I’m not saying that just because as a woman, you will find that you want to be feminine or as a man, you want to be masculine. But just be curious. Don’t even listen to me, right? Don’t even listen to Oli. Find your own truth. That’s what I really want for you. And that’s where you’re going to be a really peaceful person and a person who’s actually capable of loving.
Because what we see right now is actually a crisis of narcissism in the world. And that’s why everything is so messed up and relationships are horrible. , and if this is something you’re struggling with, please reach out. The best place to find me is my YouTube channel. Just very simple. Veronika Amaya, and my website. I’ll Link my link Tree where you can find all these links. And yeah, I release daily videos also on TikTok and on YouTube weekly videos.
So you can check all this out. And. Yeah, I was so glad to have this conversation. And the same for you, Oli. I’m, like, so happy. It was so nice today because you speak my language. I think I’ve been on a super similar path. And it’s just people like you really bring me so much hope that, yeah, we can turn the ship around because it is very important for our society right now.
Oli: Yeah. And I think the way. You’ve just summed everything up. It hits the nail on the head, right? I always think I talk about all this stuff on this podcast, and I put all kinds of complicated things out there, but it’s exactly what you said. Uncover the truth and then live the truth. That’s basically it. If you uncover the truth and then live the truth, you’ll find yourself on this real path that we’re talking about, because it’s universal. So I really could talk to you all day, but I’m going to shut up. But I’ll share your notes in the show notes. I’ll share your links in the show notes. And, Veronika, I just want to thank you so much for this, because it’s been a good one, and I feel hyped up.
Veronika: Thank you so much for having me. That was really wonderful.
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