Creative Status: Episode 49: Inaya Oakroot: Divine Duality & Realness

Creative Status is a podcast about using creativity as a vehicle for improving your life by deconstructing ego, integrating the shadow self, and designing and manifesting a real life.

Every episode explores how the creative process can help you GROW REAL by moving towards wholeness in yourself by making the unconscious conscious.

Explore the captivating world of Divine Duality on this episode of Creative Status. Meet Inaya Oakroot, a visionary artist and coach, as we journey through her extraordinary philosophy and the story behind it.

Inaya, born Cesilia Ekroth in Sweden, embarked on a lifelong artistic journey at just 5 years old. Guided by a connection to otherworldly realms, she balanced a remarkable career as a tennis coach with her flourishing artistry, exceeding all expectations. Her path led her to consult in the corporate world, run a refugee camp, and author books on shifting consciousness.

In this episode, we dive deep into the transformative power of Divine Duality. Inaya’s experiences reveal the profound harmony of opposites and the potential it unlocks in our creative journeys. Explore her spiritual evolution through sound healing, energy healing, and shamanic studies.

Don’t miss this episode of Creative Status if you’re on your own journey and want to grow real. Listen now to gain fresh perspectives on Divine Duality and ignite your own creative journey. Tune in and embrace the magic of balance in art, life, and beyond!

Thanks a bunch,

Oli

(Scroll down for show transcript)

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Show Transcript: Divine Duality & REALNESS

Intro
Oli Anderson: Oh, hi there, Oli Anderson here. You’re listening to Creative Status. This is a podcast about using the creative process as a vehicle for growing more real. Growing more real means that you’re stepping into your realness, not being disconnected unnecessarily because of the fragmentation you’ve picked up in the form of emotions that you’re clinging onto, a false sense of identity, aka the ego, self-limiting beliefs, erroneous beliefs, all kinds of things that cause you to hesitate and hold back from living the life that you really want to be living and doing the things that you really want to be doing because they’re within you, basically. And the creative process is about bringing them up so you can do something with them.

That was a rambling introduction. My name is Oli Anderson. If you don’t know, I’m a creative performance coach. Help people to kind of implement these ideas in their lives and businesses.

You can book a call with me on my website if you want, olianderson.co.uk/talk. Anyway, today’s episode of Creative Status is with Inaya Oakroot. Inaya is a kind of healer.

She works with energy and all those kind of things and she helps people to basically improve their relationships with duality. Now, this is a really interesting concept because in my opinion, one of the main things that causes us to be unreal is our attachments to dualistic thinking, thinking that things are a simple case of black and white instead of stepping beyond them and getting into the gray area if you want to use that of reality itself, which is about holes instead of fragments.

When we get caught up in dualistic thinking, we ultimately get caught up in judgment. And that judgment is always saying more about us than the things that we seem to be judging. That’s if we’re projecting that judgment outside of ourselves. Because ultimately, the only reason we would judge and get caught up in dualistic thinking is because we’re trying to keep our ego exactly where it is. So anyway, Inaya has this amazing concept called divine duality.

That’s what we picked pieces in this episode. Won’t say too much more. But if this podcast helps you, please leave a review wherever you’re listening to it. Inaya, thank you so much for your time.

Everybody else. Hope you get some good stuff out of this. Here we go.

Thanks a bunch. Boom.

Interview

Oli Anderson: Oh, hi there, Inaya. Thank you so much for joining me on today’s episode of creative status. I have a feeling that we’re going to go quite deep. I always have that feeling, but I have it more than usual based on the previous conversation that we had.

I assume we’re going to talk about this concept or idea or experience even that you’ve come up with called Divine Duality. But before we get into it, do you feel like introducing yourself, telling people what you’re all about, what you do, and also what you want to get out of this conversation that we’re about to have?

Inaya Oakroot: All right. Yes. Thank you for being here, Oli. I’m Inaya, and I live in Sweden, in an island outside Sweden, and a creator. I always have been creating my own clothes, my house, my environment, my life, and work as an artist. And lost 10 years, I’ve been mostly into the art of healing, and especially sound healing and vocal sound healing. And yeah, I don’t know if I should introduce myself more, but it will come when we speak, I think.

Oli Anderson: Yeah, it’ll come out organically. But what do you personally want to get out of this conversation? Like, what are you hoping is going to happen?

Inaya Oakroot: I hope to you listeners to have a feeling of there is a path that is so simple, of getting duality as something as a jewel, and not as something that we should hide away from, but really the path of happiness.

Oli: Wow. Okay. So now it’s getting interesting. So duality as a jewel is a very interesting concept. And I think I know where you’re coming from, but the standard way of looking at duality in these kind of spiritual healing circles that we find ourselves in, is that duality is the main source of all problems in our lives. Because duality ultimately is our inner fragmentation, our inner separation projected out into the world, reflected back at us and showing us a world where everything is either or black or white, up or down, left or right. And it’s basically the source of the matrix, shall we say, that causes people to be trapped.

And I think a lot of the time when people see duality as something that’s separate from themselves and something that they need to overcome or something that needs to be solved and dealt with, then they don’t realize that there is an inherent connection between them and the source of duality, which is their relationship with themselves, and that they can free themselves via acceptance instead of resistance or just trying to avoid or transcend or whatever it is that people think they need to do to the dualistic thinking and all that kind of stuff, which they believe is trapped them. So that was a run. And I just made a bunch of assumptions about your work. But how can we crack that open? What do you mean? Let’s keep it simple.

What do you mean when you say duality is a jewel? Because I think that’s awesome. When I think I know you, I think I get it.

Inaya: Yeah. Well, first of all, yes, it’s a perception of duality that made this problem and black and white. It’s like, you know, we have made it like two magnetic energies that are so polar, so they can’t be with the other.

It’s like a field between them that puts them against each other on other. Because for me, it’s a start of just the garden of Eden that we cast out of the paradise and everything. And we have made all our cultures following that line that we are separating and cast out. And then we created a duality that is really dual. But actually, duality came from oneness.

And we see it as coming from oneness. It makes a triangle instead of one line. And inside the triangle, when two counterparts meet, there happens so much of everything that we can create and all aspects of potential. And it’s, you know, because when two counterparts meet, they come into love. So all what we have created with our inverted duality, as I call it, will just dissolve.

So it’s quite simple. What we can see it as, you know, duality is not only, you know, two parts, but it’s absolutely the line between the liminal space. As when we create something, we have, we have maybe a material and we have thought about making something.

And when we start to create with the material, something else come out that we couldn’t even experience before we did it. And that is the meeting point in the middle. So it’s divine duality is really to make the counterparts meet in the 5050 center and create a child. It’s like the mother father. And when they come together, it comes to a new, new energy. Yeah, because a source comes in from oneness into the meeting of two polarities.

That something new have started to live. Was it simple?

Oli: It’s simple, but not simple. So let’s make it even more simple. Right. So let’s go back to the garden of Eden. I think that’s a good starting point.

Right. So for people that have heard this podcast before, I’m always talking about how the human condition, the human experience is ultimately a journey from our fragmented state to a state where we more whole. The thing that we have to traverse in order to go back to the state of wholeness is all of the dualistic thinking, the judgments, the emotions that hold us back, all of this fragmentary stuff that we’ve picked up that prevents us from perceiving reality and our realness, which is a natural state of wholeness.

The, the story of the garden of Eden and Adam and Eve basically sums the opposite pathway up, which is the journey from wholeness to fragmentation, which is the human condition, right? Because we’re all born slightly fragmented because we’re in fragmented bodies. So just for listeners, the story of Adam and Eve basically can be seen as a metaphor for starting to think in a dualistic way.

Right. And once they start thinking in a dualistic way, they are cast out of the garden, which is just a metaphor for wholeness. And then they have all kinds of problems because they’re sinning in skate quotes, in religion or in Christianity, at least sinning just means that you’re not on the real path. You’re not perceiving clearly.

And ultimately that’s what this is all about perception. So the short version of that story is that Adam and Eve are in the garden, they all their needs are met. They’re in a state of wholeness. They’re not overthinking things. They’re flowing. They’re just going with life and blah, blah, blah.

Everything’s amazing. Then they eat from the tree of knowledge. And it’s not knowledge in the sense of knowing, which is experiential and like knowing the truth or something like that. It’s conceptual knowledge of good and bad dualistic thinking.

Once they acquire that knowledge, they are thinking in a fragmentary way. God comes along and he stops looking at them over every day as he kicks them out of the garden and they can no longer be in that state of wholeness. Human beings after that have ultimately been in this fragmented state where they’re trying to return to wholeness. And ultimately that’s what all of these healing journeys are about.

So in that sense, The way that we think about dualistic thinking actually causes more problems because of what you’ve said, which is that dualistic thinking is not separate from wholeness in a way, it’s only separate in perception and if we can see it in a real way then we have to understand that the way back to wholeness is to change our relationship with dualistic thinking, not abolish it completely. And it’s saying that I like, which sums this up and maybe this is going to be relevant to your work and simplify this even more, is that everything contains the seed of its opposite. So in relation to our emotional stuff as human beings, the things that we’ve hidden in the shadows, for example in the shadow self, which is why we create the ego, then a lot of those bad things that are down there are going to have the seeds of our goodness in there as well. A lot of the good things about us, if they become miscalibrated, well, they contain the seeds of badness or evil or whatever it is. And so everything is actually still one, but the way that we attach to certain ideas about things causes us to filter everything through this black and white thinking because it’s simple and it allows the ego to stay where it is. If you don’t know my work, the whole thing ultimately that I’m saying is the ego, the way we identify, causes us to attach to things that prevent us from moving with the flow of life back towards wholeness and kind of using dualistic thinking, I guess, or transcending it is how I normally talk about it, so that we can taste wholeness again and remember who we really fucking are, pardon my French. So this idea, everything contains the seed of its opposite.

Do you agree with that? And in relation to what you’re saying about divine duality, how can we use that idea that everything contains the seed of its opposite to free ourselves from thinking in this way that is not helping us to heal or move towards wholeness?

Inaya: Yeah. At first, I really think that we needed this kind of duality that we had.

It’s not for nothing. If I just put the screen even further back, I believe that consciousness didn’t exist in the beginning of everything, but void. It’s a black void of potential that started to be potential, but it’s mostly of all, it’s just an energy of love. And when this blackness of just love, of this feeling, like water, it’s not like shifting very fast.

It’s really thickness in this energy of blackness. And after a long time, consciousness was born because light came from love in my experience. And with that consciousness, it started to expand more and more and more in its consciousness.

And after a long time bathing in the blackness, it couldn’t resist the love that was the mother of itself and started to penetrate it. And that’s what we call Big Bang or whatever we call it. And from wholeness, nothingness came wholeness. And from wholeness came duality. And from duality, we can’t go back to wholeness, but we come to the third part that is divine duality, that is the other way of perceived duality. So that’s for me, it makes me so safe living here in this shift in the world, because I feel that duality has now played out itself. And we can see it so much because all the culture are matched and merged and mixed and, you know, it crashed into each other.

And we start to be so, so fed up with being in this war inside ourselves and outside ourselves. And one thing more, we have been thinking with our brain separated from heart and body. And the brain works like black or white. It separates, it can’t see anything without having this polarity. So the polarity is the brain. But when we start to be more fully living, we are starting to embody brain, heart, body, energy.

And we know that we are in divine duality.

Oli: So the way that I like to think about that is that the brain ultimately is evolved to help us survive in a fragmented world, in a fragmented body. And so it thinks in a fragmented linear kind of way and projects that out into the world. And so when we’re just running on autopilot, that is the way that we tend to see things because it’s helping us to survive or to do the things that we think we need to do to survive in this fragmented place that we call Earth. But then things can happen in our lives that help us to kind of transcend or see beyond that fragmented way of being.

And that’s when we have these peak experiences. That’s what Abraham Maslow called them. Or it might be a spiritual experience or a religious experience or some experience that gives us a taste of wholeness and interdependence, i.e. a connection to all things, instead of just this illusion of independence that the brain shows us as an independent entity and an independent body. And when we can taste that, we can put ourselves on a path of constantly moving towards more and more taste of that, so that our lives become increasingly more real.

Real for me just means having that connection to wholeness, being on a path where we’re constantly evolving and we’re constantly expanding beyond our ideas of ourselves so that we can keep tasting that feeling of realness that I’m talking about. That’s all that we really need. And it’s ultimately what you were saying. It’s either nothing or it’s everything. That’s how I look at it. Yeah, because it becomes down to your perspective. And so one thing that I found is, you know, you can go through all these different convoluted ways of thinking about things.

You can come from all different ideologies and philosophies and political systems and blah, blah, blah, blah. We’re all looking at the same thing. We’re all human. We’re all looking at the same reality. We just have different interpretations of what it is. And depending on how we get to this final point of tasting wholeness, we either taste it as nothing, which is when we start to say, you know, everything is meaningless. We’re all nihilists and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Or we taste the exact same thing. And it’s full. It’s full of love.

It’s full of joy, blah, blah, blah. And that’s because we’ve come at it and we’re not saying everything is empty. We’re saying everything is full. And so I guess my question for you is, how do we use this idea that you’ve come up with, the divine duality to go through this process of understanding life and understanding the human condition and get into that point where we experience life in its fullness instead of its emptiness.

Do you see what I’m saying? They’re the same thing, but it’s something that we’re holding on to that is allowing us to experience that same thing in a very different way. They’re both rational. It’s just our identity ultimately, or something like that, that is causing that shift in perception.

Inaya: Yeah. For me, first of all, it sounds like, you know, like divine duality is the same, like oneness, but it isn’t because oneness, it’s not at all have any separation in the duality. And inside duality, there is this pearl of potential and creativity. If you think of the oneness or the source coming into two and making this filled triangle, and we go into the middle of it, it store all potential. And when we come there, we have all the potential to create a new what we didn’t see before, what hasn’t been.

And we can’t come there if we don’t have integrated mind, body, heart. And for me, the very simple way is the vertical breath. I know I read it from Dunwali, what he called, Melsedishek, anyway, that they in Egyptian time, they breath vertical. And I didn’t understand it until I started to practice it. And actually, if we are just inside our brain, and then just feel that we have inside our own energy field, and then go down to the heart and have a consciousness in our heart and start to use that line between our mind and heart as a breath line, and then start to expand the love that breath line comes into being connection between source and middle of earth. And we start to vibrate potential. And it’s so another life, another way of living. And it’s so simple, actually.

Oli: Let’s talk about this idea that keeps coming up in the conversation about how emergence, ultimately, things emerging that are bigger than the sum of the parts. So the example you used is, okay, you’ve got the masculine polarity and the feminine polarity, they come together, and they create a child.

That’s a simple example, right? But even in the creative process of just two people having a conversation, say, like we’re doing now, I’m coming at it from my perspective and my You’re coming at it with yours. And if we’re just doing that on the conceptual level, well, there are going to be certain dualities there that are built into the philosophies that we bring into the table. But at the same time, something bigger can emerge if we approach it in a real way.

And the reason that that is, is because if you do it in a real way, you’re going to create conditions to invite the potential and creativity that you’re talking about. And when you do invite it with the right attitude, which is basically about being open-minded and learning and blah, blah, blah. Well, you bring insight into the table and what happens when you get insight is something emerges that is bigger than all of the conceptual knowledge that we originally brought to the conversation. Because the insight just means actually that we have unlocked an opportunity for the truth to come surging in. And the truth and insight, which is how it shows up, is the only thing ultimately that can allow something new to emerge.

And it’s not like something new is actually coming into the equation. It’s actually we are getting the insight clears the way for the revelation of something that was there all the time. But the perspectives that we were attached to has been kicked out of the way, basically, by the truth coming in like a wave or a tsunami or however you want to say. And the creative process is the same thing. Like when we create something, we go into it with ideas about what we want to create, ideas about who we are as the creator. And then there is an interplay between us as fragments and reality as a whole that eventually allows something new to emerge.

And you basically said earlier in the conversation, right? When we create something, if we’re doing it in a real way, as I would say, what we create is always different to what we expected. And the reason is that we allowed ourselves to navigate the path in such a way that the revelation of some truth would happen. And that revelation of truth is whatever we end up creating, the final product of our creations.

Does that make sense in relation to what you’re saying? And what do you think about all that? The idea of the emergence of some revelation of truth that is going to allow you to be more real, but allows you to actually create something as well.

Inaya: Yeah, I think when we come to the middle line between two counterparts, as with two people meeting each other and speaking, there are several things happen in the way to the middle. First of all, we have to lose our control. We have to let go of knowing what will happen. And when we come closer and closer to that middle point, we start to be in flow. And to be in flow is like losing time and space and letting source create through us. And it’s the most happy and joyful and ecstatic space that we can be in.

Yeah, yeah.

Oli: When you get to that middle point, it starts moving again, right? Like really, there is no middle. The middle, once you’ve grasped it, is a temporary conceptual point that you have allocated in time and space.

Inaya: I’m not saying that.

Oli: Yeah, okay, why not?

Inaya: Because when I had my last retreat that I hold here in Sweden, when I did different counterparts all the time during the retreat, and people when they are using, putting like one side what they judge themselves for, and the other forgiveness, and lots of other things, when they start to come to the middle point, they start to like shriveling and a bit like crying. There are so much emotions coming up and it’s such a release there. So it’s not a conceptual point. It’s really a point where conception comes.

Oli: Yeah, sorry, what I meant is like the journey to the middle point is going to be experiential because we’re going to be doing the things you said. We’re going to lose control. We’re going to have to let go of our expectations of what’s going to happen and blah, blah, blah. But then once we get to that middle point, ultimately what happens is we go through this process of tension and release. So at the start of the journey, we had tension in the sense of our emotional attachments and our way of identifying, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

We were holding on to all this unreal stuff. We go through the creative process, which can be anything by the way. You don’t have to be painting a picture.

You can have a conversation. Like we said, you can be just doing some healing work, whatever it is. Anything that takes you back towards wholeness, which is that middle point, is a creative process. But as you go through that, ultimately the way that I’ve seen it in my life and with clients is that point that you reach through whatever process you’ve just been through is kind of a temporary thing because it’s like the layers of an onion. That’s the analogy that gets used a lot, right? So in that particular journey, you peeled off one layer.

So you went from the tension and release, which caused the people you were talking about in your retreat, for example, to have this emotional release, like the pressure valve was coming off and stuff. But then what I believe, and maybe we need to check in with each other, is there’s always another layer of the onion. While we’re having this human experience, we can always go deeper.

And so those people who went to your retreat and they had this emotional release, probably there’ll be just another level they can go to, like a deeper level, which would be a new central point in this analogy we keep using. Like is that how you see it? Like we can always go deeper into wholeness because we’re always expanding basically.

Inaya: Of course, we have all these different layers. As a healer, I can see that our high self tells how much we can be receptive to healing because we need to still be an individual knowing who we are. And if we can go take all the layers at once, we would be crazy. But actually, I see now, because I had my first retreat in Divine Duality in July, and I see that the participants didn’t take out layers. They shift their lives. As one told me now, she has been working in the corporate world with computer things and solving problems. And she was always having headache, having problems with her work, wanted to be only the yoga teacher and lots of different things.

And now when I come back to work, she sees that, oh, I love my work. So it’s not only another layer. It’s like she continuously worked with Divine Duality after retreat. And the life shift in the perception and it starts to be not another layer, but another person.

Oli: Yeah. Okay, so I got two questions there. So one thing I’ve seen when I’m coaching people in my own life as well is something very similar, actually. So once you get a taste of your realness, the taste of wholeness I was talking about earlier, once you get that, it gives you a barometer or a measuring stick with telling the difference between your real beliefs and your unreal beliefs, basically. And when you get that and you let go of some of the unreal stuff that’s holding you back, you can actually transition into a place very quickly where you realize that there’s no real difference between an unreal belief that seems big and an unreal belief that seems small.

And so you kind of have the power to dissolve them all in a very easy kind of way, easy in scare quotes, because if you’ve done it once, you can do it again, right? And it’s only the emotional attachment you have to whether some problem in your life is big or small that keeps you clinging to it. So in a way, what you’re saying is the same thing, actually.

So I get where you’re coming from now, which is that, yeah, you can change your perception so that ultimately all the unreal things you are holding on to, you can let go of, or at least remind yourself of the direction you need to turn to. So that’s one question. What do you think about that before I keep going?

Inaya: Yeah, I am absolutely with you there. And I see the participants that you start to have a conversation again with the ex-wives or husbands and just solve what was so easily now. It’s so funny to see them. You know, what happens there in so many ways? It’s just they created a way of seeing things that make it hard to live because they were still carrying these emotions from there. And they just start to feel, they just lose all these emotions and start to feel, oh, but they were not that bad person. It’s just another perception. And sometimes they come together again and sometimes they just feel, oh, yeah, it was a nice life also. It wasn’t that bad, you know.

Oli: Yeah, yeah. So that kind of segues into the second question, which is, you know, why do people, do you think, need to cling to all of these unreal beliefs and stories and fragmentation, blah, blah, blah. That it’s making them miserable in the first place. Like why are people telling themselves these stories that are unreal, that are making them miserable and that are stopping them from creating the life that they want ultimately?

Inaya: Well, as a healer, I understand it perfectly and also by my own life. You know, I lived with hidden address because I had a very dangerous relationship in younger years. But actually, when we have emotions in our electric system, magnetic electric system in our bodies, we are like open electric charges to the things that we experience. And if we still carry some emotions, Things that is not solved from yesterday or even earlier lifetimes or whatever. They are there and attractive the same, attracting it. And we have so many different ways of layers of connecting to the energies that we are having chords to.

So we have lots of different distorted energies in our field. And when we don’t have them any longer and when we just end any story and totally end them emotionally and in every place, they are not there any longer and we get free.

Oli: Okay, but are you saying people are holding onto these energies, as you call them, unconsciously?

Inaya: We carry them and then we are like electric charges towards them again.

Oli: Yeah, like I’ve seen that in people’s lives as well. So like they’ve got unconscious stuff going on, shame guilt trauma, that’s how it normally shows up. And that is ultimately driving everything that they do and it creates the way that they identify, it creates the relationships they have, the things they attract, blah, blah, blah.

But then they can go through this process we’ve been talking about basically of going from fragmentation to wholeness, where they become more consciously aware of what’s going on inside themselves and they start to, I guess, attract or build a life with conscious awareness instead of unconscious awareness.

And that leads to this shift. But I guess, yeah, but I guess what I’m trying to dig into and figure out what you think about this is what is causing us to hold onto things that we know are kind of bullshit basically. So a lot of the time I think we already know that we’re out of alignment with ourselves or we’re caught up in this dualistic thinking and we’re holding onto it because it becomes comfortable, even though it’s illusory and we’re not getting the results that we want.

Why do people hold onto that stuff do you think?

Inaya: First of all, I think in my perception, we don’t have to consciously understand it because I can solve things with my voice when I make sound healing. And it’s just ending up and make another energy in the body. And why we keep on having those experiences, even though we know they are not good for us, it’s because our brain are not the one ruling our word. It’s this energy field that we store that rule our word.

And when we can shift in the energy field, the brain will not even remember what it’s thought. You know, if we can take some example, if a person, if you are loving a person, you love them so much, you put different angles, when they come up on problems with this person, you come with another angle to reach that person and to save the relationship and everything. And then something sudden, little happen, and you just say, oh no, I don’t love this person any longer.

It’s like some little drop, the last drop, and you don’t. And then you can’t relate to what you thought before. You are in another spectrum, and you can’t, you know, a person that you have a relationship with, all the knowledge, it’s in the field of the heart. And when the heart has shift, the knowledge is gone.

So the brain is a perfect, it’s a perfect energy as a laser to penetrate and to make real things. But it’s not the rule. It doesn’t rule our life. It is our energy field.

Oli: I think, in a way, we need all of them though, we need to be aware of our energy, we need to be aware of the heart, we need to be aware of the brain, and we need to point them all in the same direction. Otherwise, in a way, we fall into dualistic thinking because you’re saying, right, the brain is separate from the heart and the heart is separate from the energy.

It’s all one system. And I think a lot of the time, what I’ve seen anyway is when people don’t understand the power that they have to make choices in their lives, and to do what they want, as long as it’s, you know, real, then they just let all of these different sides of themselves just go out of control, basically. So, for example, like I find, you know, the brain, if we’re going to take that one as an example, right, when people don’t choose the direction that they want to move in, and create a vision for themselves, it’s aligned with, you know, their next step towards wholeness and all this kind of stuff. So, then their brain turns against them, because they don’t have a purpose to direct the brain at, and then they just end up overthinking, they become anxious, and they start hesitating all the time and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s because they’re not pointing it in a direction that’s real. It’s the same with emotions, like, if somebody, you know, let’s say is really angry, well, if they, they have anger, and they have a purpose and a vision, they can use the anger as fuel for that.

We talked about this on a previous podcast episode. If they don’t have the purpose and the vision, well, the anger turns against them. And so they end up getting, you know, really frustrated.

And then in the worst cases, depressed, because like that’s how it shows up and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so what I have found is that we need to find a real vision, basically, a real vision means it’s not coming from our ego. It’s not something that we’re moving towards to, to compensate for our shame and how small we feel or whatever it is. It’s something that we know might be challenging, like you were saying, we’re going to lose control, we’re going to have to let go of things. But as we move forward, we are going to grow into wholeness. And if you can point your energy at that, you can point your heart at that, you can point your brain at that. And it’s something that you’ve chosen with awareness, then I think you can do a lot of this work and stay in this sweet spot of creative tension as I like to call it. Where you’re closing the gap between where you are and where you want to be. And you can keep dissolving in the way that we were talking about, you can dissolve the problems. You can dissolve your own emotional stuff, because you’re constantly moving with life instead of against it, something like that.

So that was a rant again, sorry, but what do you think about that?

Inaya: Yeah, I think we don’t dissolve problems. I think they evaporate when we come into flow, when we come into the flow that flow is to the cooperation with the brain, heart and body. And it just disappears with divine duality.

We don’t have to solve anything. We just have to come into source of ourselves. And it’s also our inner vision of what we want to be. It’s so interesting also, especially when someone wants to a career of being a designer or whatever, they come into school and they have their dream. And what comes out there is that they get into a production state and their dream was to be creative, to be happy, to have colors. And actually, the dream is something else than the concept that we come out of.

Oli: There’s always a goal behind the goal, and whether we know it or not, is to feel connected, to transcend duality or whatever you want to say, and then to just let all this unreal stuff slide away like I was saying. So, we’ve been talking for 40 minutes, it’s gone very quick. We’ve covered a lot. How would you sum up this conversation? Have you got any final words of wisdom to bring this full circle?

And also, can you tell people where they can learn about your retreats and your website and all that stuff as well?

Inaya: Yeah. Well, where can I start? I think our conversation really talked about it. The way to start to try to find counterparts meeting each other. When you have some feeling of emotions in yourself, feel what it stands for, and put love in the other field, and put them together, and you will experience what the emotion comes from. And maybe you will start crying, maybe there happens lots of other emotions, but the cry is the release of that emotion. So, what I feel is experiment.

Experiment with another perception of life. And if you want to find me, you’ll find me in Inaja, and it’s my name, Inaja Oakroot, and you’ll find me in Oakrootspiritualacademy.com. And there you can find me to have a free discovery session, and also concepts to go into this that is really affordable. So, I’m just happy to see people meet them at the place where they are, and see what we can find for them with Divine Reality.

Oli: Beautiful. Well, Inaja, thank you so much for this conversation, because I really enjoyed it, and I think the energy was good and everything. So, I appreciate your time.

I’ll share your links and everything in the show notes. But yeah, thank you so much.

Inaya:Thank you so much, Oli. So much love.

Oli: Yes, thanks again.


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